Official Ask Hondata To Lower Price For Base Ecu Flash [Archive]

Ultraman

12-04-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote from another thread:

I 100% agreed with you on this. Since this is a BASE Forum, I will voice out for all base owners!

Since Hondata is here, please read what MOST of the Base RSX owners feel, and that includes myself.

We feel that the price for the flash of the Base RSX is not right (But you might say, too bad can't do anything - But just read it anyway.) The reason for this is several factors with the flash that you are offering. Most of these reasons are what make most base owners feel that price is not right compared to the Type S flash.

Reason #1 - It is true that Hondata do bring 10whp. But that is still only 10whp, compared to higher gains on the S. (Hondata might argue that the base engine is tuned to max to give only 10whp, which is a design problem. Which we all can accept as a fact) But the fact is that Hondata on the Base only gives out 10whp. $/whp is too high

Reason #2 - No Vtec changes, why pay the same of a TypeS flash without having the same adjustment? (Hondata might argue that there is not way to adjust vtec on the Base engine, and it is true since vtec kicks in at 2200rpm, and we all aceept and agreed on.) The fact is, The hondata flash still do not alter vtec engagement poiint as in the case of TypeS. (On side not, ppl considering JET is because for $300 less, since you do not get vtec adjustment as well) $/alteration is too high

Reason #3 - With $600, other mods can be done prior to getting Hondata flash. (Hondata might say that the Flash will increase hp gains on all your mods. WHich is true). But that's still $600 that we could spend on tires, Revo SS, suspensions... babababa...

No hate responses please, since this is what we feel as base owners.

By Ultraman

Ultraman

12-04-2003, 10:16 AM

Nice points Ultraman. Unfortunately, considering the reality of Jet, a viable low cost alternative to Hondata doesn't exist. Yet. Maybe if threads like this get enough attention and if people communicate their opinions on this issue to Hondata and/or other potential chip modifiers, changes will eventually be made. Of course, as we all know, it isn't much fun waiting for stuff to come out. We want it now.

I personally cannot make up my frickin' mind on what to do, if anything, with my stock chip. Nice to know I'm not alone.

By blackandred

Ultraman

12-04-2003, 10:17 AM

Sales would increase with a lower price.
Hondata would make less profit per sale but make more sales
bringing in more profit in the end.

Right now im considering JR race header or hondata.
Race header and hondata are the same price but you get more performance from the header.
If hondata was cheaper that would be incentive to give my money to Hondata.

deadcrow27

Ultraman

12-04-2003, 10:19 AM

References: http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1922031#post1922031

JET CHIP Thread : http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99171

R_in_Base

12-04-2003, 10:52 AM

Ultraman, I respect what you're trying to do but I think you're going about it in the wrong way (i.e. you'll never accomplish what you want). What you need to do is present a business case to hondata that proves more people will by the chip at lower cost, and let hondata decide if that would be the best course of action.

Lets say they clear $200 off of every chip priced at $600. 10 people will buy the chip meaning that they clear 2gs. Now lets say you advocate dropping the price to $500, you need to show that 21 people will by the chip at this price. If you advocate $450, find 53 people. All really obvious right? The thing is, this is really the only way to motivate them to lower the price - You need to show the hard number of how many people will buy it at a certain price, but not at a higher price - not just ask if people want the chip cheaper. Everybody wants everything cheaper.

That said, I want it cheaper ;)

Ultraman

12-04-2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by R_in_Base
Ultraman, I respect what you're trying to do but I think you're going about it in the wrong way (i.e. you'll never accomplish what you want). What you need to do is present a business case to hondata that proves more people will by the chip at lower cost, and let hondata decide if that would be the best course of action.

Lets say they clear $200 off of every chip priced at $600. 10 people will buy the chip meaning that they clear 2gs. Now lets say you advocate dropping the price to $500, you need to show that 21 people will by the chip at this price. If you advocate $450, find 53 people. All really obvious right? The thing is, this is really the only way to motivate them to lower the price - You need to show the hard number of how many people will buy it at a certain price, but not at a higher price - not just ask if people want the chip cheaper. Everybody wants everything cheaper.

That said, I want it cheaper ;)

Well, is not really asking them anything at this point. Just to show them a POLL from base owners. That IF they actually lower the price, then these many more consumers will buy from them.

Quote from 1st post "So, I want to see how many will buy a Hondata flash if they lowered the price."

Thanks for your vote, Hee...

FeeD_BaK

12-04-2003, 11:17 AM

Definetely need a lower price on this as I defenetely want Hondata, but can't justify the price for what you get vs the S reflash.

R_in_Base

12-04-2003, 11:43 AM

gotcha! Good luck. Can I vote twice? Then how bout for future base owners?

URSXY

12-04-2003, 12:00 PM

I'm in the same boat. I want Hondata, but will not spend $1,000 Canadian for it. I would seriously consider Hondata if it were half the price.

Zoid325

12-04-2003, 01:08 PM

I agree with you guys. I think they definately should make it cheaper. They would then make more money because more people would get it. I hope this works.

melo_1981

12-04-2003, 01:17 PM

cheaper!

kvector

12-04-2003, 01:51 PM

First off, I would only buy Hondata if it was a lot cheaper, say around $3-400.

I don't see why the base reflash should cost as much as the S reflash does if it gives less gains. But in reality, not only does it cost as much as the S reflash, but the base owners have the added expense of having to switch to 91+ octane required. It's just not worth it to me to have to spend $600 for the gains it gives, and then shell out an additional ~$0.20 or so (from what I've noticed) per gallon of 91+ octane gas everytime I fill up.

A little math (because I'm a statistics nerd that likes to keep track of this stuff :p :spin: )...

Between the dates of 12/14/02 (around the time of my first oil change at ~6000 miles) and 11/28/03 (349 days from then) I've:
- gone 12795.6 miles
- used a total of 530.777 gallons of gas
- spent $809.80 on gas
- averaged 24.842 miles per gallon of gas

That is averaging $1.53 per gallon right now, but if that was averaging 20 cents more for premium, that would theoretically push how much I would have paid up to $918.24 over this same period of time, an increase of $108.44 over 349 days (about $0.31/day).

This is almost a year of data for me, so if I were to get the reflash now, over the next 5 years (at most for how long I would probably be keeping this car) I would theoretically be spending about
$108.44 * ( 365 days / 349 days ) * 5 years = $567.06 EXTRA on gas directly because of the reflash if I followed the same driving habits over the next 5 years.

So in the end we will "theoretically" be paying MORE for the reflash than the S owners. :(

Of course, even if I'm right and didn't fool up my calculations somewhere, this may just be a load of bullshit to some and that's fine with me, it's all in what value you yourself perceive of it. To me, it's not worth it for the base (yet).

(And yes, I've got nothing else better to do right now, I'm home sick with the flu that's been going around :( )

Also, from what I've read, the Jet "chip"/reflash sounds like a big scam to me, so there is no other alternative to Hondata for me. For now, I'm just going to stay with my stock ECU.

AirForceOneRSX

12-04-2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by kvector
First off, I would only buy Hondata if it was a lot cheaper, say around $3-400.

I don't see why the base reflash should cost as much as the S reflash does if it gives less gains. But in reality, not only does it cost as much as the S reflash, but the base owners have the added expense of having to switch to 91+ octane required. It's just not worth it to me to have to spend $600 for the gains it gives, and then shell out an additional ~$0.20 or so (from what I've noticed) per gallon of 91+ octane gas everytime I fill up.

A little math (because I'm a statistics nerd that likes to keep track of this stuff :p :spin: )...

Between the dates of 12/14/02 (around the time of my first oil change at ~6000 miles) and 11/28/03 (349 days from then) I've:
- gone 12795.6 miles
- used a total of 530.777 gallons of gas
- spent $809.80 on gas
- averaged 24.842 miles per gallon of gas

That is averaging $1.53 per gallon right now, but if that was averaging 20 cents more for premium, that would theoretically push how much I would have paid up to $918.24 over this same period of time, an increase of $108.44 over 349 days (about $0.31/day).

This is almost a year of data for me, so if I were to get the reflash now, over the next 5 years (at most for how long I would probably be keeping this car) I would theoretically be spending about
$108.44 * ( 365 days / 349 days ) * 5 years = $567.06 EXTRA on gas directly because of the reflash if I followed the same driving habits over the next 5 years.

So in the end we will "theoretically" be paying MORE for the reflash than the S owners. :(

Of course, even if I'm right and didn't fool up my calculations somewhere, this may just be a load of bullshit to some and that's fine with me, it's all in what value you yourself perceive of it. To me, it's not worth it for the base (yet).

(And yes, I've got nothing else better to do right now, I'm home sick with the flu that's been going around :( )

Also, from what I've read, the Jet "chip"/reflash sounds like a big scam to me, so there is no other alternative to Hondata for me. For now, I'm just going to stay with my stock ECU.

Good statistics man..
I would buy it if it was $350-$450. Or if it was $500 and they were to toss in the Intake Manifold Gasket.

FeeD_BaK

12-04-2003, 02:19 PM

^ good points

K20A2

12-04-2003, 03:27 PM

I wish you guys good luck, but I don't know if it will happen. I have had a lot of converations with Doug about this and he has told me the price was set in an effort to recoup the year of R&D it took them to crack the RSX ECU. This was a year of them having to make a living and paying staff and getting zero dollars for it. They are only trying to make back their investment.

K20A2

12-04-2003, 03:30 PM

One other thing to keep in mind. If hp was equal to cost, wouldn't the Injen cold air produce less hp than the AEM V2 since it is cheaper? What about the AEM short ram, we lost power so shouldn't that mean AEM should pay us to use it? Just something to think about.

AirForceOneRSX

12-04-2003, 03:33 PM

Chris,

Both of your comments make sense.
However, so do most of Ultraman's.

I don't think it is the need necessarily for a reduction in price. If it would be possible to arrange for a group buy at a lower price I think alot of people would jump on board. I don't see how it is possible but I am just throwing out an idea.

K20A2

12-04-2003, 03:39 PM

Yes and no, Ultraman is a consumer only. I am both when it comes to this. If it was cheaper we would sell more meaning we would make more money. But I know the value of having to recoup and investment since I have produced my own products. So I see both sides very well which is why I wrote what I did.

A group buy just doesn't work with the Hondata program. Because of all the shipping involved (that we take out of our profit) and there is no room beyond that to give a discount. I know that Hondata won't give us a price break beyond what we are getting now because they don't feel there is a need (based on my previous posts).

AirForceOneRSX

12-04-2003, 03:53 PM

I understand the need to recoup costs of R&D. The company I work for produces equipment that is weighed in the millions of tons, with thousands of sensors, electrical components, and miles of cable. Now imagine the R&D recoup time for a product like that...I know exactly what you mean.

And I agree that a group buy is difficult without Hondata taking a financial hit as a result. The only real benefit for them would be being able to a) draw in people who normally wouldn't buy their product and b) draw that same business away from their competitors. Increase output and market share, but at less (or no) profit per unit sold. It is a tough sell.

Personally I would be happy if they offered a free Hondata Gasket with new orders. The gasket sells for what? $65? and it could probably be shoved into the box when the retuned ECU is sent back. (I am assuming the gasket does not weigh much)

I am not as big into a massive price reduction as a decision making point as I am into seeing them come up with some type of incentive or special offer for the purchase. (..Like the Chris Dye signature shirt was enough..j/k)..

Keep me posted on what happens with this. I am probably not looking at a retune until Summer 2004, but if a nice incentive were to pop up, I might consider moving that date to sometime a little closer.

jkof

12-04-2003, 03:56 PM

Cheaper~! i want to save money for other mod

K20A2

12-04-2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by AirForceOneRSX
I understand the need to recoup costs of R&D. The company I work for produces equipment that is weighed in the millions of tons, with thousands of sensors, electrical components, and miles of cable. Now imagine the R&D recoup time for a product like that...I know exactly what you mean.

And I agree that a group buy is difficult without Hondata taking a financial hit as a result. The only real benefit for them would be being able to a) draw in people who normally wouldn't buy their product and b) draw that same business away from their competitors. Increase output and market share, but at less (or no) profit per unit sold. It is a tough sell.

Personally I would be happy if they offered a free Hondata Gasket with new orders. The gasket sells for what? $65? and it could probably be shoved into the box when the retuned ECU is sent back. (I am assuming the gasket does not weigh much)

I am not as big into a massive price reduction as a decision making point as I am into seeing them come up with some type of incentive or special offer for the purchase. (..Like the Chris Dye signature shirt was enough..j/k)..

Keep me posted on what happens with this. I am probably not looking at a retune until Summer 2004, but if a nice incentive were to pop up, I might consider moving that date to sometime a little closer.

I agree it would be cool if they offered more but that is why I offer a free t-shirt with the reprogams now. That shirt is coming out of the profit as well but I thought it would be a cool touch and an added benefit to buying the Hondata. I really believe in the program and the company itself and I am doing what I can to get them in as many RSX's as possible even with the price where it is.

To me the contest is the best incentive because you might win it!

n8236

12-04-2003, 06:16 PM

Very interesting thoughts indeed.

When Hondata is able to recoup its profits from it's r&d, does it mean a price drop will eventually come around? Thus, we base owners shall wait longer for it to get cheaper? I highly doubt the price of Hondata's reflash will come down even after it recoups. In any case, without any direct competition, I believe that is one of the main reasons why Hondata is priced at where they are. They're pretty much a monopoly with the technology they have. Eversince the introduction of the RSX's i-vtec, a lot of other Honda/Acura cars will also have this, and thus provides Hondata can use that same technology with use of those cars and make A LOT more profit. I don't see how they could still be recouping from the R&D expense. If their r&d expense throughout the yr was strictly based on the RSX, then the $600 for all their RSX reflashes would be seem reasonable.

Think about all the other cars they can use the RSX-S/RSX codes for.....TSX, Accords, SUV, s2000 etc ( assuming all these cars later will have or already have i-vtec ). But I guess there isn't mcuh anyone can do about it.

K20A2

12-04-2003, 06:28 PM

I am not sure if the price would drop or not, that is more up to Hondata and no myself. I would hope that it would but I cannot promise it.

At time point the RSX is the only thing they have been working on. The TSX is a completely new ECU and different from the RSX. The don't even know if they can do anything with it. So because other cars come with an iVTEC doesn't mean that Hondata can or do anything with the ECU. More to thing over... :)

tenth

12-04-2003, 06:45 PM

Personal quote from an old thread. Anybody taking management courses should know exactly what I'm talking about...

Originally posted by tenth
The fact that the K20A2 sees more gains is a pointless comparison (not saying you believe this, but many do). They still had to crack the code and they still extracted as much power as they safely could, it's just that the 2 engines are COMPLETELY diferent. You can't expect them to price it based on gains because they still have to cover the exact same costs as any of their other programs when doing it.

The high price tag isn't just paying for the cost to flash the ECU, it's also paying for all the considerable amount of R&D and knowledge that was put into it. It's like a college textbook. The paper itself isn't worth anything, it's the knowledge put into it that you're paying for.

Ultraman

12-05-2003, 12:10 AM

Wow, tons of replies.

As for cost of R&D...

Any company that wants to sell a product will need to have a budget for lost in the beginning. I don't see why Hondata needs to be any different. No Bait, No Fish!

Consider a car company that's brand new to the market. Yes, they are fresh, never sold anything before. Yes, they made 100 cars they had a loan of $10Million less say for R&D and parts and labor to build the cars. Should they sell the 100 cars for $100,000 each then to make their Budget back? (Lets say other companies have budgets of $10Million also, and sells at the normal lowered prices say $50,000 due to competitions.)
It is only a given that the new company will definitely sell the car at $50,000 instead of $100,000 each, or even lower than its competitors' price. That way, they will ensure repayment of their loan and continue to expand their name. Even though the profit is less within recent years, the long term profit is greater.

With that example in mind, why is Hondata not concern about price drop? One VERY SIMPLE answer:

NO COMPETITORS!

Why drop prices if the only way to get a flash now is through only Hondata? I would not... I would indeed rise the price so that I can drop the prices once competitors start showing up on the market. Is like, if there was ONLY Ford Model T in this world, how much would you pay to get one???

But what Hondata needs to realized is that the Flash for the RSX Base is not a MUST Mod or MUST have or Better have than most other mods. It seems that way on the Type S (A Good mod), because it truly gives you a "Wiplash". But not on the base with 10whp.

So, in my conclusion, I BELIEVE Hondata CAN drop their prices. I Believe the only time they will drop prices are when someone else offers a as competitive flash at a lower price. (Which is why they also want to wipe JET out of the picture. And No, I'm not saying that JET works or not, just saying that JET could be a potential competitor if they proved to be liable.)

Thank you! I'm going to sleep now...

tenth

12-05-2003, 08:25 PM

You have a good idea, but where are you getting the information that Hondata has priced their product to recoupe all of their R&D costs in the short term?

K20A2

12-05-2003, 08:27 PM

Not sure if you were asking me, but I do work very close with Hondata and we talked about the pricing before it was released. They didn't tell me detail but they told me what they needed to charge to make their money back and I thought it was a fair price.

1BADSUP

12-06-2003, 01:52 AM

I'd pay $300 for a hondata - definitely wouldn't pay $600.

tenth

12-06-2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by K20A2
Not sure if you were asking me, but I do work very close with Hondata and we talked about the pricing before it was released. They didn't tell me detail but they told me what they needed to charge to make their money back and I thought it was a fair price.
Nope, Ultraman. ;)

His big long post is based entirely on the fact that Hondata has priced their product to recoupe their costs in the short term, which is news to me. Debt is a good thing for companies, it gives them leverage to increase returns to investors.

K20A2

12-06-2003, 12:39 PM

Sounds good, just curious.

Spent198

12-07-2003, 11:00 AM

These are all very good points. I do agree with Ultraman when he stated his three reasons in one of the first posts. Of course, I do understand what Chris is saying regarding R&D as that can be incredibly expensive. This is a tough argument and to be quite honest I don't believe we will see a price change. Of course, it would be very nice. :)

punkdrum4ever1

12-09-2003, 11:11 PM

isnt hondata also coming out with a program that lets your run up to 10 pounds of boost and nitrous (sp?). If so is this going to be for the base to?

K20A2

12-09-2003, 11:15 PM

It should work on the base, but Hondata will have to weigh in with the final answer.

shrewd

12-10-2003, 10:24 PM

I would like to see the price lowered also. I still haven't purchased hondata yet because its pushing nearly $1000 here in Canada, not worth it.

amelen

12-10-2003, 10:31 PM

If it was around $400 i would get it..

We should start a petition and send it over to hondata.. if there is enough demand (plus it will be like a giant group sale) they might do it.

K20A2

12-10-2003, 10:39 PM

I can tell you that the guys over at Hondata have seen this post. If there is to be a price drop the will do it, if they need to keep the price were it is, then it will stay. I wish we could offer it cheaper, but we can't. I wish that we could work out a group deal with Hondata, they have said no in the past. Take a sec and look at it for their point of view right now, you guys basiclly started a post showing how many of you want it. Why would they lower the price? :) Just something to think about. In busines when demand is high, so is pricing, when demand is low, pricing low...

jstn

12-10-2003, 10:49 PM

true, but when people are not willing to buy at that price and are willing to wait for a price drop then the company will end up selling more product at that lower price. running a business is a gamble

K20A2

12-10-2003, 10:51 PM

Move to the "back from the dead" base model forum.

jstn

12-10-2003, 10:52 PM

i was just about to ask you to do that, thanks again for getting the forum back

K20A2

12-10-2003, 10:53 PM

Just remember the nice things that I do. :D

not your Type

12-10-2003, 11:03 PM

If Hondata lowers the price on the S flash, I'll probably buy it. If they don't, I probably won't. Kinda a lose-lose right now, but who knows.

I know Hondata is great and I know it somewhat deserves to be expensive, but this is just my consumer view. From being in many Hondata threads, I know many others are in my shoes too.

Ultraman

12-10-2003, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by K20A2
Just remember the nice things that I do. :D

Ha Ha, Thanks for moving it.

Yeah, this post is in no way targetting Clubrsx. Since we all know who sets the price.

But if Hondata wait long enough, there might be other companies that might come back from their research and launch a chip or a flash and they would try to out priced Hondata. And everyone who would want a flash would then get one, there will be no one left to buy Hondata flash even when Hondata decide to lower the price. So its true that its a gamble.

For example, IF Wackypack comes through with the OBDII scanner, and showed that JET do indeed did not scam this time, and the ECU is not stock. Just imagine the possibility... Or worse yet, there are many computer hackers, why can't someone hack the Hondata ECU program and flashed it for a lower price and change a little of the tuning so that it won't violate the patent? I'm not a hacker so I don't know much, just what if they can...

type1rsx

12-11-2003, 12:05 AM

cheaper is a keeper ..... lol!!!

go ultraman , go go!!!:thumbsup:

salem

12-11-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by K20A2
you guys basiclly started a post showing how many of you want it. Why would they lower the price? :) Just something to think about. In busines when demand is high, so is pricing, when demand is low, pricing low...

However, just `unofficially' judging by the sigs of base owners (particularly ss owners like me) on this forum, i would venture to say that only a very small % actually have hondata. That's not demand.

If i had an s, i would have already purchased it based on all the positive gains it gives. I would guess (again just simply judging by the sigs from this forum) that of those rsx-s owners that are into modding their car, a large % either already have hondata or plan on getting it. That is demand.

Me wanting more power does not always translate into me buying more power.

K20A2

12-11-2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Ultraman
Ha Ha, Thanks for moving it.

Yeah, this post is in no way targetting Clubrsx. Since we all know who sets the price.

But if Hondata wait long enough, there might be other companies that might come back from their research and launch a chip or a flash and they would try to out priced Hondata. And everyone who would want a flash would then get one, there will be no one left to buy Hondata flash even when Hondata decide to lower the price. So its true that its a gamble.

For example, IF Wackypack comes through with the OBDII scanner, and showed that JET do indeed did not scam this time, and the ECU is not stock. Just imagine the possibility... Or worse yet, there are many computer hackers, why can't someone hack the Hondata ECU program and flashed it for a lower price and change a little of the tuning so that it won't violate the patent? I'm not a hacker so I don't know much, just what if they can...

Look at how many companies are in the Honda/Acura ECU market right now.... No one can steal what Hondata does, it took them a year to crack an ECU and all they do is ECU work. It is really not that easy. I think that is what has happened with JET, it is easy to sell something simple rather than go the hard route and develop something with performance. I have no clue about JET, but I am going to be working on a test at the beginning of the year.

I am just giving the sides of the case, because I agree with you guys, I want to sell more of them and I know a lower price can increase those sales. I am just giving you a little info on the way Hondata is looking at things.

1BADSUP

12-11-2003, 03:27 AM

Looks like we base owners will have to wait for Hondata to make enough profit from their initial investment before we see a lower price.

Go_Canes

12-11-2003, 11:05 AM

You guys might as well be asking Honda/Acura to lower the price of the base RSX since it's such a dog compared to the Type-S.

I'd imagine that it took Hondata the same amount of R&D for each of it's reflashes. The Type-S and Si flashes are awesome. Is there no way to run the Si flash on the base RSX?

1BADSUP

12-11-2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Go_Canes
You guys might as well be asking Honda/Acura to lower the price of the base RSX since it's such a dog compared to the Type-S.

No need to ask Acura to lower the price of the base RSX. It's already a lot lower than their prototype and lower than the Type S.

We're just expressing our opinion and hoping that Hondata will listen. If not, no big deal, we're still happy with our base RSX. There are other ways to add power anyway. Someone in the forum mentioned a Pulley Set for the base RSX due to be released in January from Unorthodox Racing. I'd rather spend my money on that.

K20A2

12-11-2003, 01:06 PM

Maybe you guys should just go buy a Type-S.
:D

Sorry had to do it. :p

AirForceOneRSX

12-11-2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by K20A2
Maybe you guys should just go buy a Type-S.
:D

Sorry had to do it. :p

Hehe. Now, now, Chris...enough of that..;)

1BADSUP

12-12-2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by K20A2
Maybe you guys should just go buy a Type-S.
:D

Sorry had to do it. :p

We're not even willing to pay $600 for a hondata :p . What makes you think we'll fork out the extra money for a Type S? :spin:

K20A2

12-12-2003, 01:07 AM

haha! lmao

jstn

12-12-2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by 1BADSUP
We're not even willing to pay $600 for a hondata :p . What makes you think we'll fork out the extra money for a Type S? :spin:

haha :laughing: now that was funny :laughing:

amelen

12-12-2003, 12:06 PM

I say someone calls over hondata says that if they lower the price we will buy in bulk (since a lot of people are interested)..Since they are no getting almost any base sales anyway.. they might lower the price (for sort of like a group sale) where they would get over 20 orders..

Anyone up to it?

K20A2

12-12-2003, 12:09 PM

Asked and answered above. I have asked Hondata a few times and no way to do it. Shipping costs way to much and they are not willing to lower the price they charge us, so no way to do it.

Spent198

12-13-2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by xennex
Let's face it, base owners are cheap, otherwise they would have bought a type s. I don’t see any threads on the type s forum about getting hondata to reduce the price, only threads about how good the mod is and warrantee stuff. Saving $3295 to get a vehicle with inferior engine, transmission, suspension and less options does not make sense. That’s only about $50 per month for me. It is not hondata’s fault that the reflash makes less power on the base – it’s the wimpy K20A3 engine.

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this forum. :jigglemad

K20A2

12-13-2003, 01:02 PM

Actually, they are not cheap, the base is not priced all that different from the Type-S. I don't want to speak for anyone with a base model, so I cannot tell you why they went with one over the other. The base model is just as good as the Civic Si (old and new) and those are both considered major tuner cars. So to me your argument doesn't hold water on that side.

Go_Canes

12-13-2003, 01:55 PM

I disagree about the base being as good as the Si. I'd guess that someone would buy the base only to get the automatic. No idea why anyone would get a 5-speed base instead of the RSX-S, unless they're planning on doing a swap right away and didn't need to waste money on the K20A2. Insurance was almost identical when I looked at them as well.

As for Hondata, it does a great job in the Si. If the base version is anything like it, I'd recommend it.

psychowiz

12-13-2003, 01:57 PM

Just whining about the high price of hondata (or any mod) probably won't do much good.

Even though the R&D for both the Base and S are the same, price is not solely set based on R&D recoupe/upkeep + profit; but also takes into consideration how much the customer is willing to pay for it.

The points Ultraman made are very valid; and the value of Hondata for the Base just seems low compared with the S. Hopefully, if this is what all the Base owners think, this will show up in Hondata's sales book; and this little tread/market poll may get them to rethink about their pricing.

For me, this may mean after I mastered my shifting skills with my S to outrun a bus (my new year resolution), it'll take me a longer time to beat you guys on the yet-to-be-common Hondata'ed Base. :laughing:

Happy :driving:

6g3ar freak

12-13-2003, 02:25 PM

Price doesnt matter. hondata will make their money. I say this becuase either way people will find a way to pay 600 for it.

RAVEN

12-13-2003, 02:37 PM

hey guys,
I just got my car about a month ago and im goin to run it at the track next thursday cuz it is import nite. Now my question is what time is my bone stock rsx base suppose to get in the 1/4. Give me some times and i let you guys know what i ran. oh yea won my first race against a 2000 honda civic si. beat him by a door. the dude had about 4 or 5 mods.

RJC RSX

12-13-2003, 03:46 PM

my friend in a 03 M/T si w/ CAI was dead even with me at every speed on the highway in my stock auto rsx :thumbsup:

punkdrum4ever1

12-13-2003, 04:13 PM

i beat my friend in his 2000 civic si when i just had exhaust and he had i/e/and a short throw

Im going to buy hondata never the less but i wish it was a little cheeper.

K20A2

12-13-2003, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by RAVEN
hey guys,
I just got my car about a month ago and im goin to run it at the track next thursday cuz it is import nite. Now my question is what time is my bone stock rsx base suppose to get in the 1/4. Give me some times and i let you guys know what i ran. oh yea won my first race against a 2000 honda civic si. beat him by a door. the dude had about 4 or 5 mods.

Check out the 1/4 mile forum, there are a bunch of threads in there about it.

tenth

12-13-2003, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Spent198
That is the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this forum. :jigglemad
You obviously haven't been here long. ;)

That is a partially ignorant statement, but there is also truth to some of what he's saying. It really isn't Hondata's fault that the gains aren't as much as the K20A2. They still did as much as they could, the engine is just more limited. I wonder if the Type S didn't exist if people would still be bitching?

How many people here have paid close to $600 for exhausts that won't see anywhere close to the gains Hondata has proven? And I'm not talking about claimed manufacturer gains...