mustang such a manly car??

[Rsx_aPexI]

i was coming home tonight and caught up with a 5spd convertable cobra. from a 50 roll we go. after the 3rd honk i hesitated a second to make it even. right away 3rd gear i pulled it by a car hit 4th he stays the same but starts to creep slowly not even to meet my door by the time we hit 100 i let off and let him fly by. i just thought to my self junkstangs r such manly cars and cant beat a 2.0 n/a...:laughing:

[drumnatural]

If it was the 03 model Cobra it would have raped you.

[carnage]

If it was the 03 model Cobra it would have raped you.

Yup

It would have bent you over and treated you like a barn yard animal.

doesn't get much more manly than that.

[Rsx_aPexI]

no s/c on this one :p but it looked like that body style

[Boost_inthebox]

hmm. by the "cobra" denomination, we can assume it may have been any third gen slowbra, maybe an sn95 which is my best bet, in which we will all still laugh at you.

hell even an 01 cobra will more than likely get you laughed at.

[Rsx_aPexI]

point is IM not S/c and it wasnt s/c fairly even beside the extra 4 cylinders and the 2.6 of displacement. id be ashamed of my v8 =o/

[drumnatural]

This body?

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_2003_Chevrolet_Corvette_Vs_2003_Ford_SVT_ Mustang_Cobra_1l_2003_Chevrolet_Corvette_And_2003_ Ford_SVT_Mustang_Cobra.jpg

[NightshadeGT]

point is IM not S/c and it wasnt s/c fairly even beside the extra 4 cylinders and the 2.6 of displacement. id be ashamed of my v8 =o/

That extra displacement is tugging a lot more weight than you. Not to mention if the guy did the slightest bit of work to it, it would easily rape you, dollar for dollar, mod for mod, all day long.

[BlackSS]

wait wait wait!!!! Correct me if I'm wrong....but did a dude IN AN RSX just question if a mustang is a manly car???? Irony anyone???

[Leebunnyz]

This body?

http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0305_2003_Chevrolet_Corvette_Vs_2003_Ford_SVT_ Mustang_Cobra_1l_2003_Chevrolet_Corvette_And_2003_ Ford_SVT_Mustang_Cobra.jpg

it cant be that one! they give it the nick name terminator for a reason...he probably ran into a v6 with a bodykit and a dual exhaust

[ODUB]

yeah, an 03 woulda done you dirty. i killed one a while back, but barely. the best way to take out a mustang is to head into a curve. at that point, the race is over. i had an old 95 integra LS i bought as a project car a while back. the cv boots on both sides were blown, and it had walmart special 100k tires on it...basically as sticky as a hocky puck. it handled better than an 06 mustang GT i drove. sad.

[qwk]

congrats on racing a 3.8 with a cobra bumpers and decals

[Leebunnyz]

yeah, an 03 woulda done you dirty. i killed one a while back, but barely. the best way to take out a mustang is to head into a curve. at that point, the race is over. i had an old 95 integra LS i bought as a project car a while back. the cv boots on both sides were blown, and it had walmart special 100k tires on it...basically as sticky as a hocky puck. it handled better than an 06 mustang GT i drove. sad.

thats funny because i never had a problem taking curves in my car even before my suspension mods, its the having to slow down part that almost gets me killed mustangs have the worst brakes EVER

[ODUB]

thats funny because i never had a problem taking curves in my car even before my suspension mods, its the having to slow down part that almost gets me killed mustangs have the worst brakes EVER

go drive something that REALLY handles, and you'll notice how horrible the mustangs are. i drive an EVO IX MR now with racing coilovers, and i also have a honda accord with coilovers, sways, strut bars, etc that i used to race in autocross before i got the EVO (Accord's still undefeated in STS :thumbsup: ) so going from those two cars into something like a mustang, you notice the difference. like i said, my stock acura integra LS felt a lot better. mustangs are just heavy, and the suspension is wayyyy too soft. doesn't help that the stock tires suck either. they were never designed to turn. that's why i've never liked american vehicles. they need to learn that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a great car make.

[orangekeebler]

this kid thinks he honestly pulled a cobra? no matter what the year, any of them would eat his soul.

and yes, an rsx owner asking about the 'manliness' of another car...one of THE icon muscle cars thats still in production to this day for what...at least 30-35 years?

what a tool.

[Machina]

Was it this one?

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1999-2000-2001-2002-2003-2004-ford-mustang4.htm

:confused:

[orangekeebler]

on the next page of that article...the cobra r... :drool:

[Rsx_aPexI]

it didint sound like no 3.8 v6 . thats a very distinctive sound. i raced an 05 v6 stang before thats no challange and probbably raped it much more. and yes it was that body style. it had no s/c .some do some dont. it had a cobra rear bumper and maybe exhaust. u never know maybe a gt with cobra bumper... its about as rice as putting type s on base model. probabbly after doing 110 or so the cobra woulda past me but who needs to go that fast =o).

[orangekeebler]

it didint sound like no 3.8 v6 . thats a very distinctive sound. i raced an 05 v6 stang before thats no challange and probbably raped it much more. and yes it was that body style. it had no s/c .some do some dont. it had a cobra rear bumper and maybe exhaust. u never know maybe a gt with cobra bumper... its about as rice as putting type s on base model. probabbly after doing 110 or so the cobra woulda past me but who needs to go that fast =o).

http://www.svtcobraclub.com/svtupdates.htm

http://www.svt.ford.com/flash/bottom1cobra03.html

all 2003 cobras were blown. its how they came stock. the 01's were the n/a version..but looked fairly similiar. even so, one of those would put a zip code's distance on you with ease.

[aywwsd]

i was coming home tonight and caught up with a 5spd convertable cobra. from a 50 roll we go. after the 3rd honk i hesitated a second to make it even. right away 3rd gear i pulled it by a car hit 4th he stays the same but starts to creep slowly not even to meet my door by the time we hit 100 i let off and let him fly by. i just thought to my self junkstangs r such manly cars and cant beat a 2.0 n/a...:laughing:

and people wonder why everyone thinks rsx is a bitch car...

[orangekeebler]

if it was a v6 auto convert i could kinda see this happening...but not a cobra. and if he 'caught' up to him..how does he know it was a 5sp? an 01 cobra will hit the 110 mark in 3rd..id be willing to bet an 03 would do the same.

[DarkMatter]

OP lied

/thread

[Midnight Blue LS2]

it didint sound like no 3.8 v6 . thats a very distinctive sound. i raced an 05 v6 stang before thats no challange and probbably raped it much more. and yes it was that body style. it had no s/c .some do some dont. it had a cobra rear bumper and maybe exhaust. u never know maybe a gt with cobra bumper... its about as rice as putting type s on base model. probabbly after doing 110 or so the cobra woulda past me but who needs to go that fast =o).

The only non-supercharged Cobra of that body style with "COBRA" embossed on the rear bumper was the 2001 model.

2001s did NOT have the missing horsepower problem that the '99s had. A good running '01 cobra will go well into the 13s stock and is ABSOLUTELY capable of pulling on a 14.09 @ 101 car fairly decisively.

therefore, my clonclusion: You raced a GT with a cobra bumper...

[orangekeebler]

go drive something that REALLY handles, and you'll notice how horrible the mustangs are. i drive an EVO IX MR now with racing coilovers, and i also have a honda accord with coilovers, sways, strut bars, etc that i used to race in autocross before i got the EVO (Accord's still undefeated in STS :thumbsup: ) so going from those two cars into something like a mustang, you notice the difference. like i said, my stock acura integra LS felt a lot better. mustangs are just heavy, and the suspension is wayyyy too soft. doesn't help that the stock tires suck either. they were never designed to turn. that's why i've never liked american vehicles. they need to learn that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a great car make.

if 1/4 times and 0-60 do not matter, then how come they are always tested on every single performance car thats made?

and youd be suprised how good a mustang can handle with some suspension/tire work. :thumbsup:

[orangekeebler]

The only non-supercharged Cobra of that body style with "COBRA" embossed on the rear bumper was the 2001 model.

2001s did NOT have the missing horsepower problem that the '99s had. A good running '01 cobra will go well into the 13s stock and is ABSOLUTELY capable of pulling on a 14.09 @ 101 car fairly decisively.

therefore, my clonclusion: You raced a GT with a cobra bumper...

edited post...i misread yours mike. :D

[Midnight Blue LS2]

wrong sir.

my friend has a mineral gray 01 cobra...'cobra' is on the rear valance :p

re-read what I said....carefully......:rotfl:

i'll rephrase since i guess the sentence was a little convoluted....

that body style ran from '99-04. (known as "new edge", but technically SN-95)

There were no 2000 or 2002 cobras (yes i know about the cobra R and the australian 2002s).

the 2003 and 2004 were blown, as you know.

therefore, the only two "new-edge" years that had N/A motors were 1999 and 2001.

1999 had "MUSTANG" embossed on the bumper....2001 had "COBRA"....

make sense now? lol

[orangekeebler]

re-read what I said....carefully......:rotfl:

i'll rephrase since i guess the sentence was a little convoluted....

that body style ran from '99-04. (known as "new edge", but technically SN-95)

There were no 2000 or 2002 cobras (yes i know about the cobra R and the australian 2002s).

the 2003 and 2004 were blown, as you know.

therefore, the only two "new-edge" years that had N/A motors were 1999 and 2001.

1999 had "MUSTANG" embossed on the bumper....2001 had "COBRA"....

make sense now? lol


i knew youd do that...

i edited my post as you were typing this. :p

[Midnight Blue LS2]

i knew youd do that...

i edited my post as you were typing this. :p

lol....it's all good. :D

your friend has a nice car then by the way....'01s are relatively rare and mineral grey '01s are VERY rare.

[orangekeebler]

indeed.

hes actually wanting to sell it so he can get a bigger bike...if i hadnt bought my goat, you know id be all over that thing easy.

if i can get some pics of it, ill post them up. its hella clean.

[drumnatural]

My boy has an 03 Cobra stock.

He let me start a car ahead from a 50mph roll.

I had CAI,IMG,CTRH, and Reflash at the time.

By the time we hit 80mph he was passing me with ease.

[Blown330]

they were never designed to turn. that's why i've never liked american vehicles. they need to learn that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a great car make.


http://img24.imagevenue.com/loc177/th_42328_HomerSad1.jpg


Not really worth starting on this one...:rolleyes:

[Rsx_aPexI]

w/e this is a bunch ish. it said cobra on the back and it was convertable and it had no s/c i know what one sounds like. and it was a v8. and not all cobra's are that fast. maybe it needs a new driver mod. everyone thinks everyone's a liar on this site ... i dont get it. but 3rd gear @ 50mph on an 05-06 is a sweet spot on the type S already in vtec. im as shocked as most of u may be. as i said before maybe a gt with cobra bumper and emblems.

[qwk]

w/e this is a bunch ish. it said cobra on the back and it was convertable and it had no s/c i know what one sounds like. and it was a v8. and not all cobra's are that fast. maybe it needs a new driver mod. everyone thinks everyone's a liar on this site ... i dont get it. but 3rd gear @ 50mph on an 05-06 is a sweet spot on the type S already in vtec. im as shocked as most of u may be. as i said before maybe a gt with cobra bumper and emblems.

dam... i think everyone forgot about the 3rd gear vtec

[Rsx_aPexI]

@ about 80 was when the front of his car started to reach the back of the car and as soon as i hit 100 and shifted to 5th i let off. im not saying id win from a dig but i really thought cobra's were faster then that. convertable was wieghing the car down a bit more too and convertable top was down

[drumnatural]

@ about 80 was when the front of his car started to reach the back of the car and as soon as i hit 100 and shifted to 5th i let off. im not saying id win from a dig but i really thought cobra's were faster then that. convertable was wieghing the car down a bit more too and convertable top was down

It wasn't a real Cobra. All the Cobra's of that body style are Supercharged. They are gonna run low 13's/high 12's.

[Rsx_aPexI]

ive seen s/c cobra's running into the 11's :ugh: . and the 14.09 was with intake/exhaust. i just put the raceheader on a few weeks ago. i havent got new times yet

[Rsx_aPexI]

WooT.... keep the negative feedback coming... looks like christmas in here all the green im the only one with red. everyone gets mad and takes offence to everything on here. oh well im the neg rep GOD

[Leebunnyz]

go drive something that REALLY handles, and you'll notice how horrible the mustangs are. i drive an EVO IX MR now with racing coilovers, and i also have a honda accord with coilovers, sways, strut bars, etc that i used to race in autocross before i got the EVO (Accord's still undefeated in STS :thumbsup: ) so going from those two cars into something like a mustang, you notice the difference. like i said, my stock acura integra LS felt a lot better. mustangs are just heavy, and the suspension is wayyyy too soft. doesn't help that the stock tires suck either. they were never designed to turn. that's why i've never liked american vehicles. they need to learn that 0-60 and 1/4 mile times do not a great car make.


i use to own an rx-8 and those things handle pretty good, yea mustangs are heavy but it takes awhile to get use to but once you get the feel of the heavier car it moves nicely... yea im sure it cant handle as good as most imports stock for stock but u act like it cant take a curve past 40 and thats bullshit

[Boost_inthebox]

w/e this is a bunch ish. it said cobra on the back and it was convertable and it had no s/c i know what one sounds like. and it was a v8. and not all cobra's are that fast. maybe it needs a new driver mod. everyone thinks everyone's a liar on this site ... i dont get it. but 3rd gear @ 50mph on an 05-06 is a sweet spot on the type S already in vtec. im as shocked as most of u may be. as i said before maybe a gt with cobra bumper and emblems.

same thing as if you put type-r emblems on your type-s, does it make the car rare and give it the 20 extra HP that the dc5r came with? no.

[W1lson]

about as manly as a fox!

[orangekeebler]

w/e this is a bunch ish. it said cobra on the back and it was convertable and it had no s/c i know what one sounds like. and it was a v8. and not all cobra's are that fast. maybe it needs a new driver mod. everyone thinks everyone's a liar on this site ... i dont get it. but 3rd gear @ 50mph on an 05-06 is a sweet spot on the type S already in vtec. im as shocked as most of u may be. as i said before maybe a gt with cobra bumper and emblems.

if i was any model of cobra, he was dicking with you.

[Rsx_aPexI]

the way he took off past me after i let off. i dought was dickin me. just too many mustang drivers r alil cocky and cant drive around here. it was 5 spd becaus i was behind it at a light and watched it take off.

[ODUB]

if 1/4 times and 0-60 do not matter, then how come they are always tested on every single performance car thats made?

and youd be suprised how good a mustang can handle with some suspension/tire work. :thumbsup:

you missed the whole point of that statement. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times matter, but they aren't the ONLY thing that matter. just because a car is fast in a str8 line doesn't make it a great performing car. power is nothing without control. i'm talking about the mustang in stock form. any car can handle if you put enough money into the suspension and tires. from the factory, the mustang just isn't a good handling car. period.

[ODUB]

i use to own an rx-8 and those things handle pretty good, yea mustangs are heavy but it takes awhile to get use to but once you get the feel of the heavier car it moves nicely... yea im sure it cant handle as good as most imports stock for stock but u act like it cant take a curve past 40 and thats bullshit

an RX-8 vs a mustang stock for stock is a joke. mustangs do not move "nicely." it's like driving a boat. the steering is numb, and there is too much play. turn in is mush, and it's body roll is ridiculous. i'm sure they can take curves faster than 40, but i've raced enough of them to know that on curves they can take at 40, i can take at 60+ with no fuss. they might be able to take that same curve a little faster, but it'll be a scary thing for that driver.

[Blown330]

an RX-8 vs a mustang stock for stock is a joke. mustangs do not move "nicely." it's like driving a boat. the steering is numb, and there is too much play. turn in is mush, and it's body roll is ridiculous. i'm sure they can take curves faster than 40, but i've raced enough of them to know that on curves they can take at 40, i can take at 60+ with no fuss. they might be able to take that same curve a little faster, but it'll be a scary thing for that driver.



Sounds like the you don't know enough about the cars to make an intelligent argument. Not surprising here though...:rolleyes:

[Rsx_aPexI]

amen to that..plus were not drifting here

[ODUB]

Sounds like the you don't know enough about the cars to make an intelligent argument. Not surprising here though...:rolleyes:

when you actually go out and drive and race all of the cars we've been discussing, and have more than random ignorance to add to the conversation, holla at me.

[Boost_inthebox]

you missed the whole point of that statement. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times matter, but they aren't the ONLY thing that matter. just because a car is fast in a str8 line doesn't make it a great performing car. power is nothing without control. i'm talking about the mustang in stock form. any car can handle if you put enough money into the suspension and tires. from the factory, the mustang just isn't a good handling car. period.

and when do people who really care about handling keep stock suspension on their car? next to never

[ODUB]

and when do people who really care about handling keep stock suspension on their car? next to never

well ladies and gentleman, we have a special guest. it's Random Man. the point of the statement i made was that mustangs aren't designed to handle, and they do a crappy job of it unless you do a good bit of suspension/tire work. even then mod for mod they can't match up to other cars that are designed better out of the box. if you start off with a shitty car, you can mod it all you want and it still won't be good, it just won't be as shitty.

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner. it's sad that american's judge performance primarily by what a car can do in a str8 line. that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

[hellboy06]

well ladies and gentleman, we have a special guest. it's Random Man. the point of the statement i made was that mustangs aren't designed to handle, and they do a crappy job of it unless you do a good bit of suspension/tire work. even then mod for mod they can't match up to other cars that are designed better out of the box. if you start off with a shitty car, you can mod it all you want and it still won't be good, it just won't be as shitty.

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner. it's sad that american's judge performance primarily by what a car can do in a str8 line. that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

LOL, If Ford wanted to make a car for corners they would've put a turbo 4 banger on a 4 door sedan, lol. The mustang was never created to handle the corners it was built to go straight, so why would it change now.You keep going through your corners with civics and accords, i'll keep going in a straightline with my mustang,BTW my car is an 04 and my interior is FLAWLESS.

[yoshidoshi123]

i agree with ODUB on the interior shit. they really are crap.

they put as much plastic into it as japanese cars but atleast my interior is sturdy. my 03 interior is a much much better build than my friend's 03 cobra.

but i gotta give it to him, that shit is fast as hell! handling isn't too bad. they turn decently well, they just aren't that agile

[NightshadeGT]

LOL at anyone with an Evo calling another car's interior crap.

[Blown330]

when you actually go out and drive and race all of the cars we've been discussing, and have more than random ignorance to add to the conversation, holla at me.

Holla at ya huh? I'll stick to laughing at your dumbass instead. Got ourselves a expert racer here apparently. How much "racing" experience do you have? Not talking about the races that happen at redlights between you and other bodykitted misfits who do little else than talk trash. You are fucking clueless if you think a modded Civic will even come close to touching a Mustang OR Camaro with even basic suspension work. Sorry kid but a FWD econobox isn't going to become a corner carver no matter how many stickers and how big a wing you put on it....:rotfl:

[TPDuke112]

Quality thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





Opinions are like assholes.

[hellboy06]

Holla at ya huh? I'll stick to laughing at your dumbass instead. Got ourselves a expert racer here apparently. How much "racing" experience do you have? Not talking about the races that happen at redlights between you and other bodykitted misfits who do little else than talk trash. You are fucking clueless if you think a modded Civic will even come close to touching a Mustang OR Camaro with even basic suspension work. Sorry kid but a FWD econobox isn't going to become a corner carver no matter how many stickers and how big a wing you put on it....:rotfl:

:rotfl: :weeeeeeeeee: :rotfl:

[magnEsium]

LOL at anyone with an Evo calling another car's interior crap.

agreed

[magnEsium]

oh and


ib75pages


:coffee: cant wait :spin:

[drumnatural]

Since the SRT-4 is discontinued we will need another "Fall guy" vehicle that is equally gay/hated/half-ass. (Except the guys that own SRT-4's here. There's are special. Hugs)

Lancer Ralliart would beat it.

[TPDuke112]

oh and


ib75pages


:coffee: cant wait :spin:

you drive an sti or a rsx?

[magnEsium]

you drive an sti or a rsx?

:shady:

[magnEsium]

okay okay ill fess up

im trading my rsx in when i get my license back in october

[orangekeebler]

the way he took off past me after i let off. i dought was dickin me. just too many mustang drivers r alil cocky and cant drive around here. it was 5 spd becaus i was behind it at a light and watched it take off.

just like a lot of the import owners cant spell worth a damn.

[orangekeebler]

you missed the whole point of that statement. 0-60 and 1/4 mile times matter, but they aren't the ONLY thing that matter. just because a car is fast in a str8 line doesn't make it a great performing car. power is nothing without control. i'm talking about the mustang in stock form. any car can handle if you put enough money into the suspension and tires. from the factory, the mustang just isn't a good handling car. period.

i got your point..but they arent bricks on wheels. they turn just fine.

[orangekeebler]

well ladies and gentleman, we have a special guest. it's Random Man. the point of the statement i made was that mustangs aren't designed to handle, and they do a crappy job of it unless you do a good bit of suspension/tire work. even then mod for mod they can't match up to other cars that are designed better out of the box. if you start off with a shitty car, you can mod it all you want and it still won't be good, it just won't be as shitty.

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner. it's sad that american's judge performance primarily by what a car can do in a str8 line. that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

if you HONESTLY believe that, then you are a fuckin idiot.

lets take a new civic si and put it up against the new cobra and watch what happens.

[magnEsium]

yo check it

yo i got slugs for snitches, no love for bitches, puttin thugs in ditches when my trigger finger itches

[carnage]

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner. it's sad that american's judge performance primarily by what a car can do in a str8 line. that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

Folks....there you have it! First class, down home, straight from the gut ignorance.

I wish we could somehow sticky this paragraph, so that we could see it every time we log in here, because it's not every day you see such stupidity so blantantly expressed.

The civic......a front wheel drive, ugly as hell, high school prom car. The civic.....the one that, in stock form, will beat and undress most any domestic out there.

Yes, the civic. The car that is as exciting as an iron lung. The civic....a car that every road racer yearns to have. The civic.....if your serectary drives one, then you just know that it has to be something that racers across america cry out for.

American cars are loved by americans BECAUSE of their performance. Of course it isn't loved by people in other countries. Why in the hell would I want to drive something that the French love??? Do you think I want to drive a car that someone who is pulling a rickshaw admires???? What do I care about what some goat farmer in europe thinks about my american car???

The reason americans like their american cars better than the rest of the world is because of the performance. It's the reason that we are the strongest nation in the world......performance. I don't give a rats ass about what some candy assed european thinks about cars. Hell, if it wasn't for us americans, they wouldn't even be able to have an opinion. Americans want their cars to have balls. The rest of the world wants their cars to have enough room in them so that they can haul the ass around of some baby seal they saved.

Love your civic....embrace it....stroke it's gutless soul, but don't even tell me that it can hold it's on against some of america's finest.

[Wilieyum]

yo check it

yo i got slugs for snitches, no love for bitches, puttin thugs in ditches when my trigger finger itches

lol greatest avy ever

[Midnight Blue LS2]

It wasn't a real Cobra. All the Cobra's of that body style are Supercharged. They are gonna run low 13's/high 12's.

negative.....

Judging by the description, this is what he's REPORTING that he raced....

http://www.elepent.com/photos/ford/cobracon.jpg

whether it was actually that or a GT with those body parts on it we can't be sure, but the cobra pictured is NOT supercharged.

[orangekeebler]

that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

here is my rebuttal to that:

http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800TT.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800TT.jpg&imgrefurl=http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800tt.html&h=246&w=444&sz=28&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=AcRzBUoJ45XYXM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhennessy%2Btwin%2Bturbo%2Bviper%26gbv %3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den

http://www.hot-cars.org/images/Saleen_2.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hot-cars.org/images/Saleen_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hot-cars.org/saleen7.aspx&h=600&w=800&sz=203&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=igYvhbDWkjaEYM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsaleen%26start%3D18%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

http://www.justj.net/misc/Z06/Web/z06%202006-06-02%2016.34.07.00.jpg
(no link even needed for this one..we all know how fucking balls out this one is)

http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.htm&h=384&w=512&sz=60&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=m3wpO6DV4JPxAM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D06%2Bcobra%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den


do we need any more examples to prove you wrong?

[orangekeebler]

negative.....

Judging by the description, this is what he's REPORTING that he raced....

http://www.elepent.com/photos/ford/cobracon.jpg

whether it was actually that or a GT with those body parts on it we can't be sure, but the cobra pictured is NOT supercharged.

but that n/a cobra would still put zip codes on a bolt on rsx.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

but that n/a cobra would still put zip codes on a bolt on rsx.

if it's a legit 4-valve and not a 2-valve with cobra body cladding, yes, it certainly should. ;)

[orangekeebler]

if it's a legit 4-valve and not a 2-valve with cobra body cladding, yes, it certainly should. ;)

off topic while i got ya here:

where do i check to see how many 04 yellow m6's were made? just curious :p

[Rsx_aPexI]

ive watched a new 06 z06 not even get to make 3 passes at the track and he blew out the rearend... not something id wanna spend 60k for. you can make an evo or sti or anything go faster then a vette for 60k. personally just not a favorite ,but they do have a nice rumble to them.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner.

really?....so you're implying that this...
http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/generations/honda.civic/98.Honda.Civic.LX.LowEmVehicle.f3-4.500.jpg

.....will outhandle this...
http://www.joesmusclecars.com/r1.jpg

funny....I don't see it....:dontknow:

I don't get it....you drive a respectable example of a japanese performance car. Why are you defending the "performance" (i use the term loosely) of a piece of crap honda civic?

WHERE THE HELL did you die-hard import fanatics ever get the idea that a Civic is meant for anything but economical transportation anyway? It's a low-cost, fuel-sipping econobox and it was NEVER anything else.

The fact that there's a HUGE aftermarket for them is not a result of some inherent performance potential. It's a result of someone figuring out how much useless crap they could sell to ignorant teenagers who were unlucky enough to get stuck with mom's hand-me-down Honda....

that's why american cars are the biggest joke in the automotive world in every country but america. and don't even get me started on the mustangs interior....

OMG this elitist, anti-american, JDM nutswinging is starting to get old....why don't you do us all a favor and move to tokyo already? :stfu:

[magnEsium]

I love the new mustangs, I'm not all crazy about the interior though, just not me :dontknow:

[TPDuke112]

ive watched a new 06 z06 not even get to make 3 passes at the track and he blew out the rearend... not something id wanna spend 60k for. you can make an evo or sti or anything go faster then a vette for 60k. personally just not a favorite ,but they do have a nice rumble to them.

:rolleyes: you can make a fucking Saturn faster than an evo for 30K....

[orangekeebler]

ive watched a new 06 z06 not even get to make 3 passes at the track and he blew out the rearend... not something id wanna spend 60k for. you can make an evo or sti or anything go faster then a vette for 60k. personally just not a favorite ,but they do have a nice rumble to them.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

you really need to think about what you just said.

[magnEsium]

I'm known for yoking jacks, And beatin them with smoking gats
Leavin token blacks with broken backs and open caps
So with that bullshit, step to the rear son
The last thing you want with Big L is a fair one
Cause in a street brawl, I strike men like lightning
You see what happened in my last fight friend?
Aight then

[ODUB]

really?....so you're implying that this...
http://www.edmunds.com/media/reviews/generations/honda.civic/98.Honda.Civic.LX.LowEmVehicle.f3-4.500.jpg

.....will outhandle this...
http://www.joesmusclecars.com/r1.jpg

funny....I don't see it....:dontknow:

I don't get it....you drive a respectable example of a japanese performance car. Why are you defending the "performance" (i use the term loosely) of a piece of crap honda civic?

WHERE THE HELL did you die-hard import fanatics ever get the idea that a Civic is meant for anything but economical transportation anyway? It's a low-cost, fuel-sipping econobox and it was NEVER anything else.

The fact that there's a HUGE aftermarket for them is not a result of some inherent performance potential. It's a result of someone figuring out how much useless crap they could sell to ignorant teenagers who were unlucky enough to get stuck with mom's hand-me-down Honda....



OMG this elitist, anti-american, JDM nutswinging is starting to get old....why don't you do us all a favor and move to tokyo already? :stfu:


you're comparing a special edition mustang cobra R to a stock civic LX.... dumbass. take a civic Si, and a mustang GT, see which one does what around a corner. as for that cobra R, put as much money as that thing costs stock into that civic, and it'll eat that mustang's ass. or hell, grab a DC2 integra Type R and run it against a mustang GT and see what happens. the ITR would whoop that mustangs ass with no problem at all.

[ODUB]

here is my rebuttal to that:

http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800TT.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800TT.jpg&imgrefurl=http://members.aol.com/speeddmn16/venom800tt.html&h=246&w=444&sz=28&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=AcRzBUoJ45XYXM:&tbnh=70&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhennessy%2Btwin%2Bturbo%2Bviper%26gbv %3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den

http://www.hot-cars.org/images/Saleen_2.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hot-cars.org/images/Saleen_2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hot-cars.org/saleen7.aspx&h=600&w=800&sz=203&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=igYvhbDWkjaEYM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsaleen%26start%3D18%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp% 3D18%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

http://www.justj.net/misc/Z06/Web/z06%202006-06-02%2016.34.07.00.jpg
(no link even needed for this one..we all know how fucking balls out this one is)

http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stangbangers.com/06_FordShelbyCobraGT500_Wallpaper.htm&h=384&w=512&sz=60&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=m3wpO6DV4JPxAM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D06%2Bcobra%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den


do we need any more examples to prove you wrong?


you're not proving anybody wrong, you're just proving that your tastes are different than mine when it comes to cars. i like well built, well balanced cars that can do more than go fast in a straight line. i also happen to enjoy cars who's interior's weren't made by fisher price. and just for the hell of it, i tend to go for cars who's value doesn't drop $20k in the first year. but hey, that's just me.

nice cars...lots of power... not much else. cheaply made, cheap interiors, clunky gearboxes, numb steering, not especially great on handling, but hey, they've got a lot of power and they look cool. look up what foriegn automotive journalists have to say about the cars you just listed in their reviews. Top Gear comes to mind. american cars are the biggest jokes in the automotive world in every country but america because other countries realize that a cars performance isn't all about big hp numbers.

[Blown330]

Damn...just when you couldn't make a more idiotic statement you manage to come through in spades. Top Gear? Talking about a show that is comically inaccurate about so many things it's painful to watch sometimes? Good job picking that as your barometer for how Europeans feel about American cars. Not surprising coming from you though. Now...talking as someone who's actually lived (originally born too) in England and frequently visits family there, I can pretty much assure you any real car enthusiast has a good deal of respect for cars like the Mustang, Camaro, and Corvette. They may be saddled by insanely high gas prices and ludicrous car insurance premiums but they'd jump on the chance to own a 5.0 Mustang (seems to be the populr choice still) if they could afford it. In fact next time you are in Europe take a good note at what rich folks drive as a status symbol (I'll give you a hint...a full-sized truck or SUV garners more stares and appreciation than a high end BMW or Mercedes).

[NightshadeGT]

you're comparing a special edition mustang cobra R to a stock civic LX.... dumbass. take a civic Si, and a mustang GT, see which one does what around a corner. as for that cobra R, put as much money as that thing costs stock into that civic, and it'll eat that mustang's ass. or hell, grab a DC2 integra Type R and run it against a mustang GT and see what happens. the ITR would whoop that mustangs ass with no problem at all.

Interesting you say that, because in C&D lightning lap the new GT carried higher cornering speeds around VIR than your vaunted SI. Go read up.

[blainestang]

you're comparing a special edition mustang cobra R to a stock civic LX.... dumbass..

Actually, YOU did :rolleyes:

give me a civic from any generation, in any trim, stock form or mod for mod, it'll rape any mustang around a corner.


take a civic Si, and a mustang GT, see which one does what around a corner. as for that cobra R, put as much money as that thing costs stock into that civic, and it'll eat that mustang's ass. or hell, grab a DC2 integra Type R and run it against a mustang GT and see what happens. the ITR would whoop that mustangs ass with no problem at all.

:stfu:

And I'll throw some used coilovers in my Fox Mustang that I picked up for $500, stripped it out, and toss a turbo on a 302...

These arguments are retarded because people place value on different things.


Top Gear comes to mind.

:laughing:

Are you actually siting Top Gear as a non-biased source of automotive journalism? I guess that's why they claimed the GT500 didn't even come close to matching it's 500hp claim with ~447whp. That's ~530 "brake" horsepower (as they like to call it) even with only 15% drivetrain loss.

Next time you're attempting to substatiate a claim based on an outside source, try one who doesn't blatantly ignore facts related to the subject at hand. :rolleyes:

[ODUB]

i cite top gear because they make good points. whether you like what they have to say or not, their opinions on american cars are usually dead on.

[blainestang]

i cite top gear because they make good points. whether you like what they have to say or not, their opinions on american cars are usually dead on.

You're right... 447whp is MUCH less than 500 "brake" horsepower. Excellent point. :rolleyes:

[BlackSS]

Seriously though, do you just spout off shit before thinking? Or is there any reasoning behind your statements? Some of the stuff you say is right on and believable.....then you just come with the most utter bullshit statements. Quite frankly it's entertaining. Btw, you gonna answer why you said any civic v. any mustang, then cried foul when someone posted a matchup?

[ODUB]

Seriously though, do you just spout off shit before thinking? Or is there any reasoning behind your statements? Some of the stuff you say is right on and believable.....then you just come with the most utter bullshit statements. Quite frankly it's entertaining. Btw, you gonna answer why you said any civic v. any mustang, then cried foul when someone posted a matchup?

i meant any NORMAL mustang. like a mustang, or mustang GT. i wasn't talking about a special racing edition that costs twice as much as the base car. i didn't think i had to spell it out that much for you people lol. i should have also said integra, but integra's and civics are based on the same chassis, so i included those in my mind, forgot to type it out haha.

but yeah, i still stick by that. give me a 99 civic Si, 99 integra R, and a 99 stang GT, and a corner, and we'll see what happens. or give me an 06 Civic Si, 06 RSX-S and 06 stang GT and a corner. it's all the same. the mustang is a brick on wheels with a solid rear axle...yeah, that was made to go around a corner haha c'mon now

[Blown330]

You said any, ANY Mustang. You did not specify, you did not imply, you did not mean anything else but what you stated and you got called to the floor on it. You were wrong...period.

[BlackSS]

i meant any NORMAL mustang. like a mustang, or mustang GT. i wasn't talking about a special racing edition that costs twice as much as the base car. i didn't think i had to spell it out that much for you people lol. i should have also said integra, but integra's and civics are based on the same chassis, so i included those in my mind, forgot to type it out haha.

but yeah, i still stick by that. give me a 99 civic Si, 99 integra R, and a 99 stang GT, and a corner, and we'll see what happens. or give me an 06 Civic Si, 06 RSX-S and 06 stang GT and a corner. it's all the same. the mustang is a brick on wheels with a solid rear axle...yeah, that was made to go around a corner haha c'mon now

LOL, I know it's so horrible making turns with a solid rear axle. Almost makes me want to buy a fwd car for it's handling capabilities. We all know fwd is superior....definitely wasn't invented for economical reasons.

[blainestang]

give me an 06 Civic Si, 06 RSX-S and 06 stang GT and a corner. it's all the same. the mustang is a brick on wheels with a solid rear axle...yeah, that was made to go around a corner haha c'mon now

Maybe you missed this... It was but a few posts back.

Interesting you say that, because in C&D lightning lap the new GT carried higher cornering speeds around VIR than your vaunted SI. Go read up.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

i cite top gear because they make good points. whether you like what they have to say or not, their opinions on american cars are usually dead on.

lol......jeremy clarkson owned a Ford GT and Richard Hammond owns a '68 Mustang fastback and a '68 or '69 Dodge Charger R/T.....:rotfl:

They bash american cars for comedic value dumbass....some american cars suck, some dont.....

[GSRGuy94]

This is such a ridiculous thread, I'm not even sure what I should say. I will say this though... with a few minor modifications, my car surprised the hell out of me based on how it handles vs. a stock one.

[BlackSS]

This is such a ridiculous thread, I'm not even sure what I should say. I will say this though... with a few minor modifications, my car surprised the hell out of me based on how it handles vs. a stock one.

WHAT?!?!?! Impossible....it's a solid axle RWD car. No way that thing can handle....sell it and buy FWD...that's where the hot shit is at!

[GSRGuy94]

WHAT?!?!?! Impossible....it's a solid axle RWD car. No way that thing can handle....sell it and buy FWD...that's where the hot shit is at!

:deadhorse: Don't ya just love some of the :bsflag: that is spread around here? And I'd love to have one of these guys try and school me about how well an Integra handles :rolleyes: .

[ODUB]

oh, and yeah sometimes i do just say shit to piss y'all off because it's so damn easy haha. i get bored, and you guys seem to take this shit sooooo seriously. c'mon man, it's just the internet. lighten up.

but, i do still contend that american cars suck. i'm sorry, i just don't like them. they don't handle well, they are poorly built, and have horribly cheap interiors. why do the vette, SSR, and cavalier all share the same radio, and buttons?

and OMG, but LEAF SPRINGS? leaf spring rear suspension on chevy's flagship performance car??? c'mon now.

i also stick by the fact that the EVO will manhandle a vette around a road course. and since y'all wanna throw in ringers like the Cobra R, how about we bring in the EVO Fq-400? with only 400hp, it will take out a Lambo Merc around a road course, and i don't even have to tell you what it would do to the 400hp vette. with the same power, the EVO does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. 0-100 in 9 seconds. i don't see how anybody would believe that the Vette will out corner an EVO... that's just dumb lol. the most sophisticated AWD drivetrain on the planet, no sir, vette goes down. ESPECIALLY if you wanna bring in a model with ACD and AYC. i would get into how all those systems work, but it's been a long day and i'm kinda tired lol basically the ACD shifts the tq split from front to rear, and the AYC does it from side to side. in some instances, the car can actually be one wheel drive through a corner sending 100% of the car's tq to the outside rear wheel to make it turn. the car bases these things on a battery of inputs from various sensors...wheel speed, steering angle, slip angle, traction, etc... anywho, leaf springs suck.

point is, american cars weren't designed with turning in mind.

[ODUB]

lol......jeremy clarkson owned a Ford GT and Richard Hammond owns a '68 Mustang fastback and a '68 or '69 Dodge Charger R/T.....:rotfl:

They bash american cars for comedic value dumbass....some american cars suck, some dont.....

clarkson owned the ford GT because it was designed, tested, tuned, and put together by foriegn companies, then badged by ford. do some research son. the ford GT is an american car in name only

[ODUB]

LOL, I know it's so horrible making turns with a solid rear axle. Almost makes me want to buy a fwd car for it's handling capabilities. We all know fwd is superior....definitely wasn't invented for economical reasons.

i'll take double wishbones, and multi link independent suspension over a solid axle anyday. anybody with any sense would. that solid axle wasn't put there for it's handling prowess...it was put there for the same reason most parts go onto american cars...it's CHEAP lol

[BlackSS]

Are you ever wrong in anything??? Even with blatant proof???

[Midnight Blue LS2]

you're comparing a special edition mustang cobra R to a stock civic LX.... dumbass. take a civic Si, and a mustang GT, see which one does what around a corner. as for that cobra R, put as much money as that thing costs stock into that civic, and it'll eat that mustang's ass. or hell, grab a DC2 integra Type R and run it against a mustang GT and see what happens. the ITR would whoop that mustangs ass with no problem at all.

you make a beyond-idiotic blanket statement and I'm the dumbass???

Nothing front-wheel drive including the ridiculously overhyped civic Si you're jizzing all over is DESIGNED to go around corners. According to the LAWS OF PHYSICS, which, i'm pretty sure the mad-tyte JDM market hasn't found a way to defy yet, forcing 2 wheels to do ALL of the cornering, accelerating and braking while the other two accomplish nothing but holding up the trunk is an inherently inefficient design.

A civic Si is nothing but a slightly lowered civic with a torqueless-wonder buzzsaw under the hood, slightly higher spring rates and big wheels. You can put christmas lights and tinsel on a big steaming piece of shit....and it's still....a big steaming piece of shit. Fortunately for Honda, they've been able to convince countless ignorant and/or apathetic fanbois that this somehow resembles a true sports car. That's simply not the case.

I STILL don't get you. You drive a legitimate Japanese performance car. how can you be so blind as to believe that an economy car can even be uttered in the same conversation?

It's always the same with you people....you come on here and talk in PAINFULLY stereotypical detail about domestic performance cars sucking at this and that and the other thing (the interior sucks blah blah blah, the car doesn't turn blah blah blah....you sound like one of those dolls with the pullstring in the back....the shit never changes with you guys). We on the other hand, defend our kind and for the most part, don't EVER bother to bag on the desireable import machines, because we're level headed and mature enough to be at least semi open-minded..

why is that exactly? did you ever stop to think that maybe it's because, for some reason, you BLINDLY worship everything japanese? You probably don't realize it when you type it, but all the bullshit you're spewing sounds REALLY immature and pathetic.

It's so sad when you have to wage war on something just because it doesn't suit you personally.....give it up already, it's getting fucking OLD!!

[Machina]

Actually, in the STS class in autocrossing, the 89 Civic Si pretty much dominates like there's no tomorrow. So putting bolt-ons onto any just about any other car won't get it around a track than that little go-kart. Economy car or not, it can turn.

[GSRGuy94]

oh, and yeah sometimes i do just say shit to piss y'all off because it's so damn easy haha. i get bored, and you guys seem to take this shit sooooo seriously. c'mon man, it's just the internet. lighten up.

but, i do still contend that american cars suck. i'm sorry, i just don't like them. they don't handle well, they are poorly built, and have horribly cheap interiors. why do the vette, SSR, and cavalier all share the same radio, and buttons?

and OMG, but LEAF SPRINGS? leaf spring rear suspension on chevy's flagship performance car??? c'mon now.

i also stick by the fact that the EVO will manhandle a vette around a road course. and since y'all wanna throw in ringers like the Cobra R, how about we bring in the EVO Fq-400? with only 400hp, it will take out a Lambo Merc around a road course, and i don't even have to tell you what it would do to the 400hp vette. with the same power, the EVO does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. 0-100 in 9 seconds. i don't see how anybody would believe that the Vette will out corner an EVO... that's just dumb lol. the most sophisticated AWD drivetrain on the planet, no sir, vette goes down. ESPECIALLY if you wanna bring in a model with ACD and AYC. i would get into how all those systems work, but it's been a long day and i'm kinda tired lol basically the ACD shifts the tq split from front to rear, and the AYC does it from side to side. in some instances, the car can actually be one wheel drive through a corner sending 100% of the car's tq to the outside rear wheel to make it turn. the car bases these things on a battery of inputs from various sensors...wheel speed, steering angle, slip angle, traction, etc... anywho, leaf springs suck.

point is, american cars weren't designed with turning in mind.

Ever seen what the new Z06 does around the Nurburgring? I'd say that's the biggest ultimate holy-shit-motha-fuckin roadcourse you can get.

[ODUB]

Actually, in the STS class in autocrossing, the 89 Civic Si pretty much dominates like there's no tomorrow. So putting bolt-ons onto any just about any other car won't get it around a track than that little go-kart. Economy car or not, it can turn.

thank you. that's pretty much every autocross in america.

[BlackSS]

Weren't you going to bed?

[ODUB]

Ever seen what the new Z06 does around the Nurburgring? I'd say that's the biggest ultimate holy-shit-motha-fuckin roadcourse you can get.

that's Z06, we're talking about the C6. the Z06 does a good time on the ring because of the power. it can handle, don't get me wrong, but the acceleration plays a big part on a course that long.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

point is, american cars weren't designed with turning in mind.

lol.....if the term "blanket statement" was actually in the dictionary, there'd be a "see ODUB" footnote on it.

Everytime you say something this stupid, you prove more and more how much of a stubborn, yet biased and misinformed moron you are.

How do you ever expect to have any kind of positive influence over any type of debate if you can't even make a single coherent and intelligent point?

[BlackSS]

It's a shame, more money than brains it seems.

[Machina]

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/Pro%20Solo%20Finale%20Sat%20Final%20.pdf


Mustangs don't really do well competitively in stock classes, and if you notice in the FWD stock classes, there are lower times than many RWD cars. The 240 doing well in STS2 was a huge upset that year for the Civic Si. Granted, there are a few special edition Mustangs that handle pretty well, but if we're going to talk about handling, Mustangs really aren't the American car to brag about.

[ODUB]

i'll give it to you Midnight, FF cars aren't the most efficient design for handling ON PAPER for the reasons you listed. but that's when smart people with engineering degrees come in and adjust things like spring rates, roll rates, shock damping, valving, corner weights, roll centers, center of gravity, and other points of the suspension, and it's geometry, to create a well balanced car that can overcome it's weaknesses. FR is a better layout, but if the engineers don't set it up right (american automakers), then it's still crap. you can put all the parts on a car you want, and have the best drivetrain and all that, but if it's not tuned right, it's still crap.

[blainestang]

oh, and yeah sometimes i do just say shit to piss y'all off because it's so damn easy haha. i get bored, and you guys seem to take this shit sooooo seriously. c'mon man, it's just the internet. lighten up.

Sure... you were just joking around with us the whole time. You aren't really as dumb as you seem :rolleyes:


but, i do still contend that american cars suck. i'm sorry, i just don't like them. they don't handle well, they are poorly built, and have horribly cheap interiors. why do the vette, SSR, and cavalier all share the same radio, and buttons?

Umm... so they can sell a World-Class supercar for $60k? This may come as a shock to you, but some people care more about having an LS7 than they do about having burled walnut HVAC controls.


and OMG, but LEAF SPRINGS? leaf spring rear suspension on chevy's flagship performance car??? c'mon now.

Hopefully that kind of argument makes the Ferrari driver feel better when he loses to a $60k American "POS".


i also stick by the fact that the EVO will manhandle a vette around a road course. and since y'all wanna throw in ringers like the Cobra R, how about we bring in the EVO Fq-400? with only 400hp, it will take out a Lambo Merc around a road course, and i don't even have to tell you what it would do to the 400hp vette. with the same power, the EVO does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. 0-100 in 9 seconds. i don't see how anybody would believe that the Vette will out corner an EVO... that's just dumb lol. the most sophisticated AWD drivetrain on the planet, no sir, vette goes down. ESPECIALLY if you wanna bring in a model with ACD and AYC. i would get into how all those systems work, but it's been a long day and i'm kinda tired lol basically the ACD shifts the tq split from front to rear, and the AYC does it from side to side. in some instances, the car can actually be one wheel drive through a corner sending 100% of the car's tq to the outside rear wheel to make it turn. the car bases these things on a battery of inputs from various sensors...wheel speed, steering angle, slip angle, traction, etc... anywho, leaf springs suck.

Well, if you want to play this ricer game, I call your FQ-400, and raise you one C6-R. Have a nice day.

BTW, what's a Lambo Merc? Is that some sort of Italian Mercury, or did they change the spelling of Murcielago when I wasn't looking?


point is, american cars weren't designed with turning in mind.

Who knows, maybe the 2010 Mustang will be based on the '89 Civic DX? Then we rednecks would have something worth talking about, huh?

[Midnight Blue LS2]

Actually, in the STS class in autocrossing, the 89 Civic Si pretty much dominates like there's no tomorrow. So putting bolt-ons onto any just about any other car won't get it around a track than that little go-kart. Economy car or not, it can turn.

:rotfl: and what does it compete against in this particular class???


yea....i rest my case.....;)

[ODUB]

lol.....if the term "blanket statement" was actually in the dictionary, there'd be a "see ODUB" footnote on it.

Everytime you say something this stupid, you prove more and more how much of a stubborn, yet biased and misinformed moron you are.

How do you ever expect to have any kind of positive influence over any type of debate if you can't even make a single coherent and intelligent point?

if i actually cared what people on an internet forum that i've never met, and will never meet thought about anything i did or said, then maybe i'd put more thought into what i type...but sadly, i can't make myself care that much. it's just the internet. i love the way you people make all these judgements about people based on a few statements they make online as if any of this matters lol

[Midnight Blue LS2]

i'll give it to you Midnight, FF cars aren't the most efficient design for handling ON PAPER for the reasons you listed. but that's when smart people with engineering degrees come in and adjust things like spring rates, roll rates, shock damping, valving, corner weights, roll centers, center of gravity, and other points of the suspension, and it's geometry, to create a well balanced car that can overcome it's weaknesses. FR is a better layout, but if the engineers don't set it up right (american automakers), then it's still crap. you can put all the parts on a car you want, and have the best drivetrain and all that, but if it's not tuned right, it's still crap.

this much I agree with......

where you and I differ is in our definition of "not tuned right" and "still crap"....

all name-calling and other e-flaming aside, I simply think that your opinion is FAR more biased than my own.

I'd give my left nut for an FD RX7 or an R34 Skyline. What I can't quite get is how you can compare SPORTS CARS (no matter where they're built) to honda civics.....

[BlackSS]

if i actually cared what people on an internet forum that i've never met, and will never meet thought about anything i did or said, then maybe i'd put more thought into what i type...but sadly, i can't make myself care that much. it's just the internet. i love the way you people make all these judgements about people based on a few statements they make online as if any of this matters lol

Yes, the "I don't care what people think" backtrack when all else fails. You are pointless to have a conversation with. I'm going to bed and will check out the carnage of this thread tomorrow, should be locked by then. Have fun having the computer drive your evo for you. At least it makes you feel like you are a good driver!

[ODUB]

Sure... you were just joking around with us the whole time. You aren't really as dumb as you seem :rolleyes:




Umm... so they can sell a World-Class supercar for $60k? This may come as a shock to you, but some people care more about having an LS7 than they do about having burled walnut HVAC controls.




Hopefully that kind of argument makes the Ferrari driver feel better when he loses to a $60k American "POS".




Well, if you want to play this ricer game, I call your FQ-400, and raise you one C6-R. Have a nice day.

BTW, what's a Lambo Merc? Is that some sort of Italian Mercury, or did they change the spelling of Murcielago when I wasn't looking?




Who knows, maybe the 2010 Mustang will be based on the '89 Civic DX? Then we rednecks would have something worth talking about, huh?


C6-R? are you talking about the SS/Z07/Stingray/Blue Devil? let's stay within the same price range/power range for comparison. EVO and Vette with equal HP, EVO domination all day long. Vette is 400hp, for what, like 45k? you can buy an EVO IX RS for like 28k, put about 2k worth of mods and have it at 400hp and it'll rape the Vette in EVERYTHING for 30k. if you want more in the car, get the standard EVO IX for 31k, add 2k, same result. the EVO will out handle any vette, anyday. the difference is the power, and the price. like i said EVO vs Vette with equal power numbers, EVO domination all day long for way less money.

[Machina]

American roads have aren't what they used to be in the 70's, compared to other countries. We don't have the best roads in the world anymore and many engineers take this into mind when designing cars... It's why the US has the RSX Type-S and no Type-R, or why BMW doesn't sell some of its cars with a LSD that they do in Europe. It's not to cut costs, they know Americans have either the least optimal roads for extreme driving or that Americans don't have tight little cornery style roads. You see in very many American publications references to a less "soft" suspension called a "more European" style suspension. I'm not saying America doesn't make good handling cars here, but it's important to remember that cars designed out of America for non-American markets traditionally have more corner-oriented suspension systems, and not an engine that increases in size and every time the car is redesigned. Many cars in other countries don't even have to get bigger with every redesign, they just get newer suspension bits and engines that have the same horsepower and same size, but just get better mileage.

In the US where gas is cheap and roads are long and porous, cars that have big engines and soft suspensions dominating the market are common sense and making and marketing them to Americans is an excellent business decision, to do otherwise would be to miscalculate the market widely.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

if i actually cared what people on an internet forum that i've never met, and will never meet thought about anything i did or said, then maybe i'd put more thought into what i type...but sadly, i can't make myself care that much. it's just the internet. i love the way you people make all these judgements about people based on a few statements they make online as if any of this matters lol

so in other words, you're really not making any attempt to be reasonable? :dontknow:

is it sadder that you think we all give that much of a shit about a forum argument (which we don't anyway) or that you actually get enjoyment out of instigating people you've never met before on the internet with shit that you probably KNOW is totally ridiculous?

[Machina]

:rotfl: and what does it compete against in this particular class???


yea....i rest my case.....;)

Again, you probably don't really know about the SCCA classes, but STS is a class for ALL cars with general bolt-ons. If you change the shocks and springs on your car, it's in STS, if it's a Mustang or a Civic or an RSX Type-S, period.

[ODUB]

Yes, the "I don't care what people think" backtrack when all else fails. You are pointless to have a conversation with. I'm going to bed and will check out the carnage of this thread tomorrow, should be locked by then. Have fun having the computer drive your evo for you. At least it makes you feel like you are a good driver!

you go drive an EVO and see if the car drives itself for you lol driving an EVO takes skill. it's true that the EVO is more forgiving because of it's amazing drivetrain, but when you really start to push it, you have to know what you're doing or you're in trouble. the car just handles better than the vette. period. the limits are higher because of it's design.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

Again, you probably don't really know about the SCCA classes, but STS is a class for ALL cars with general bolt-ons. If you change the shocks and springs on your car, it's in STS, if it's a Mustang or a Civic or an RSX Type-S, period.

you're right i'm not familiar with that particular one. I googled it quick and couldn't find any parituclar specifications but only matches pertaining to individual cars, which ALL seemed to be neons, integras, civics and the like.

If i'm mistaken about the class, than I apologize, but even in that case, It's tough to try and call a civic a sports car because it can FIT between autocross cones in a parking lot....

I wouldn't hesitate to say that an LS7 Z06 would be nearly useless on a tight autocross....however, does that mean that, in terms of general vehicle performance, you can possibly put it in the same category as a honda civic???

that's what I'm getting at. Autocross is all well and good for fun and entertainment. Personally, I think it's a bit of stretch to use it as a genuine measure of performance.

[ODUB]

American roads have aren't what they used to be in the 70's, compared to other countries. We don't have the best roads in the world anymore and many engineers take this into mind when designing cars... It's why the US has the RSX Type-S and no Type-R, or why BMW doesn't sell some of its cars with a LSD that they do in Europe. It's not to cut costs, they know Americans have either the least optimal roads for extreme driving or that Americans don't have tight little cornery style roads. You see in very many American publications references to a less "soft" suspension called a "more European" style suspension. I'm not saying America doesn't make good handling cars here, but it's important to remember that cars designed out of America for non-American markets traditionally have more corner-oriented suspension systems, and not an engine that increases in size and every time the car is redesigned. Many cars in other countries don't even have to get bigger with every redesign, they just get newer suspension bits and engines that have the same horsepower and same size, but just get better mileage.

In the US where gas is cheap and roads are long and porous, cars that have big engines and soft suspensions dominating the market are common sense and making and marketing them to Americans is an excellent business decision, to do otherwise would be to miscalculate the market widely.

very good point. american cars are softer than their overseas counterparts. most american drivers are more concerned with being comfortable than all out performance. our roads suck, so our cars are designed to absorb the terrible roads with softer suspensions.

[Machina]

you're right i'm not familiar with that particular one. I googled it quick and couldn't find any parituclar specifications but only matches pertaining to individual cars, which ALL seemed to be neons, integras, civics and the like.

If i'm mistaken about the class, than I apologize, but even in that case, It's tough to try and call a civic a sports car because it can FIT between autocross cones in a parking lot....

I wouldn't hesitate to say that an LS7 Z06 would be nearly useless on a tight autocross....however, does that mean that, in terms of general vehicle performance, you can possibly put it in the same category as a honda civic???

that's what I'm getting at. Autocross is all well and good for fun and entertainment. Personally, I think it's a bit of stretch to use it as a genuine measure of performance.


Here's a list of all the cars in their stock classes.http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2002/stockc.html

The Z06 does quite well in its class. But the absolute most important thing about autox isn't the car, it's the driver. If I were in a Z06 and the person getting the lowest time on that list were in my car (bolt-on RSX) they would DESTROY me, no question. Though, many people use who did well in what car to think of what car they will do best with, for instance the Miata seems to consistently beat the newest generatin MR2, so the best drivers use it because they see the Miata as an advantage they want to have.

The point is that autox is determined partially by what car, two drivers in identical cars, the best driver wins, but two identical drivers in two different cars, better car wins, like with drag racing. The purpose of autox is really to improve driver skill, that's why it's so technical and tight. Heck, actually making it to third gear means that it's a high-speed course.

[ODUB]

you're right i'm not familiar with that particular one. I googled it quick and couldn't find any parituclar specifications but only matches pertaining to individual cars, which ALL seemed to be neons, integras, civics and the like.

If i'm mistaken about the class, than I apologize, but even in that case, It's tough to try and call a civic a sports car because it can FIT between autocross cones in a parking lot....

I wouldn't hesitate to say that an LS7 Z06 would be nearly useless on a tight autocross....however, does that mean that, in terms of general vehicle performance, you can possibly put it in the same category as a honda civic???

that's what I'm getting at. Autocross is all well and good for fun and entertainment. Personally, I think it's a bit of stretch to use it as a genuine measure of performance.


well you go autocross and see if it's not a measure of performance. gymkhana is another very good measure. both are because they don't just rely on power or str8 line performance. the car must be good at EVERYTHING. it takes a well balanced car that can handle, accelerate, brake, etc. and what is good for the autocross course usually transfers to a road course. the biggest difference is that on a road course, or a large autoX course, power plays a bigger role.

the reason i threw civics in the mix is because the suspension design, the vehicle's lightweight design, and good balance make it a very good base car for racing whether you want to admit it or not. just like the integra. the integra more so than the civic, but they are from the same family, and for the most part share the same parts. what the civics lack to make them hardcore performers is power. drop 400hp in a 2000lb civic with a good suspension setup and kiss that vette goodbye around a road course.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

off topic while i got ya here:

where do i check to see how many 04 yellow m6's were made? just curious :p

1,014 according to the databse....;)

[blainestang]

C6-R? are you talking about the SS/Z07/Stingray/Blue Devil? let's stay within the same price range/power range for comparison. EVO and Vette with equal HP, EVO domination all day long. Vette is 400hp, for what, like 45k? you can buy an EVO IX RS for like 28k, put about 2k worth of mods and have it at 400hp and it'll rape the Vette in EVERYTHING for 30k. if you want more in the car, get the standard EVO IX for 31k, add 2k, same result. the EVO will out handle any vette, anyday. the difference is the power, and the price. like i said EVO vs Vette with equal power numbers, EVO domination all day long for way less money.

I present to you, the famous Top Gear track times:

1 Koenigsegg CCX (with TG spoiler) 1.17.6
2 Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
3 Maserati MC12 1.18.9
4 Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
5 Ariel Atom 1.19.5
6 Porsche Carrera GT 1.19.8
7 Koenigsegg CCX 1.20.4
8 Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
9 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 1.20.9
10 Ford GT 1.21.9
11 Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
12 Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
13 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1.22.4
14 Lamborghini Murcielago 1.23.7
15 Pagani Zonda 1.23.8
16 Noble M15 1.23.9
17 Koenigsegg 1.23.9
18 Prodrive P2 1.24.3
19 TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
20 TVR Tuscan 1.24.8
21 Mitsubishi Evo FQ 400 1.24.8
22 Noble 1.25.0
23 Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
24 Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
25 Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8


I'd like for you to take note of a few things:

1. Cost:

Evo FQ400 = 46,999 pounds * 2.0051 dollars/pound =
$94,237.69

Corvette Z06 = $70,175


2. Top Gear Time:

Evo FQ400 = 1:24.8

Corvette Z06 = 1:22.6

Oh, and take a quick little peek at the "Lambo Merc" your FQ supposedly would smoke. Guess you've been watching too much Top Gear dramatization (I saw the FQ episode, too) and not paying enough attention to actual TIMES.


3. You don't want to play the "modify the cheaper car to match the more expensive car for much less money" game.


So, ODUB, I know you "don't care" and all, but that was TOO easy :D You couldn't have set yourself up better if you tried.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

well you go autocross and see if it's not a measure of performance. gymkhana is another very good measure. both are because they don't just rely on power or str8 line performance. the car must be good at EVERYTHING. it takes a well balanced car that can handle, accelerate, brake, etc. and what is good for the autocross course usually transfers to a road course. the biggest difference is that on a road course, or a large autoX course, power plays a bigger role.

I have autocrossed, though only once, only two laps plus a little practice and not in my own car. It's not entirely useless but I still think it's a bit limited to show a cart's overall performance.

the reason i threw civics in the mix is because the suspension design, the vehicle's lightweight design, and good balance make it a very good base car for racing whether you want to admit it or not. just like the integra. the integra more so than the civic, but they are from the same family, and for the most part share the same parts. what the civics lack to make them hardcore performers is power. drop 400hp in a 2000lb civic with a good suspension setup and kiss that vette goodbye around a road course.

So solid-axles are in american cars based on cost-cutting but the civic's suspension design was dreamed up by racecar engineers?

c'mon dude, let's be reasonable.

Solid-axles are also, in large part, a staple of "muscle" cars because of their inherently greater durability. ya know what happens to the rear/axleshafts in a high horsepower Terminator/GTO/Corvette? KABOOM....

Once again, there are multiple sides to any story.


oh and 400 hp in a 2000 pound civic = useless tire smoke and god awful torquesteer.

[Machina]

5 Ariel Atom 1.19.5

That's what you should be looking at the closest. It gets around the track by having a great suspension, not because it has power. That's why autox is a decent measurement of a car's ability to handle because power doesn't enter into the equation quite as much. Though the Stig did drive the hell out of that Z06, that's a great time, faster than those beautiful but weird TVRs.

[ODUB]

yeah i saw that EVO FQ-400 test run. wasn't the best run the stig's ever had. he dropped off boost and made an error or two. there's more than one car on that list that could have gone faster if the runs had been cleaner. you should also know that one test, by one tester, on one track, doesn't mean much. any car can beat any other car on any given day under the right circumstances.

as far as the money thing, how about you compare how much the Z06 costs in the UK. it's more than the 70k it costs here. also, you can build an EVO with 400hp yourself for a lot less than 94k. it can be done for 30k with an RS model.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

5 Ariel Atom 1.19.5

That's what you should be looking at the closest. It gets around the track by having a great suspension, not because it has power. That's why autox is a decent measurement of a car's ability to handle because power doesn't enter into the equation quite as much. Though the Stig did drive the hell out of that Z06, that's a great time, faster than those beautiful but weird TVRs.



lol dude....how can you say it doesn't have power? it weighs A THOUSAND POUNDS and makes 300 horsepower!!!!

that "car" (tough to really call it one) is BLINDINGLY fast in a straight line.

In addition, a half-ton curb weight also makes it significantly easier to make something stick hard in the corners...

again, be fair. ;)

[ODUB]

I have autocrossed, though only once, only two laps plus a little practice and not in my own car. It's not entirely useless but I still think it's a bit limited to show a cart's overall performance.



So solid-axles are in american cars based on cost-cutting but the civic's suspension design was dreamed up by racecar engineers?

c'mon dude, let's be reasonable.

Solid-axles are also, in large part, a staple of "muscle" cars because of their inherently greater durability. ya know what happens to the rear/axleshafts in a high horsepower Terminator/GTO/Corvette? KABOOM....

Once again, there are multiple sides to any story.


oh and 400 hp in a 2000 pound civic = useless tire smoke and god awful torquesteer.

the civic's suspension wasn't designed to dominate races, but it was designed with stable predictible handling in mind, and is very friendly to modification, and is a much better base for handling than a sold rear axle. that's the point you obviously missed.

i'll give it to you on the durability issue on the rear axles, but there are plenty of cars with more HP with better suspension designs. BMW comes to mind.

400hp in a 2000lb civic with a good driver, suspension, and tires to make use of the power= a hell of a time attack car.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

bed time for me....I have to go to work so i can continue making payments on my poor-handling, cheaply designed piece of crap GTO....

I'll check back into this one tomorrow eveninf if it's still here....

[qwk]

thats the spirit

[Machina]

Quickly, while he sleeps someone help me tear out his LS2 and put it in my car. We'll have to make my car mid-engine because it won't fit in the front, though.


:shady:

[GSRGuy94]

as far as the money thing, how about you compare how much the Z06 costs in the UK. it's more than the 70k it costs here. also, you can build an EVO with 400hp yourself for a lot less than 94k. it can be done for 30k with an RS model.

Last I checked, we lived in America :dontknow:

[blainestang]

yeah i saw that EVO FQ-400 test run. wasn't the best run the stig's ever had. he dropped off boost and made an error or two. there's more than one car on that list that could have gone faster if the runs had been cleaner. you should also know that one test, by one tester, on one track, doesn't mean much. any car can beat any other car on any given day under the right circumstances.

as far as the money thing, how about you compare how much the Z06 costs in the UK. it's more than the 70k it costs here. also, you can build an EVO with 400hp yourself for a lot less than 94k. it can be done for 30k with an RS model.

And he virtually did a burnout off the line in the Z06. :rolleyes:

You can make all the excuses you want, and talk about exchange rates and any other Red Herrings you want as well.

Fact is, the Z06 is an amazing car that is a deal and a half by any measure for a showroom stock track car.

I have a great respect for Evo's, and wouldn't mind having one myself, but I also know that pretending like Evo's are some sort of inherently=Z06-romping machines is delusional. Are they great cars? Sure. Can some of them hang with or beat some Corvettes? Sure. Are they, or a Civic for that matter, God's gift to racing? No... and neither are Mustangs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise about ANY car is setting themselves up for disappointment.

[blainestang]

bed time for me....I have to go to work so i can continue making payments on my poor-handling, cheaply designed piece of crap GTO....

I'll check back into this one tomorrow eveninf if it's still here....

x2... My Mustangs and I are tired [of being smoked by stock '88 Civic Wagons]

[GSRGuy94]

And he virtually did a burnout off the line in the Z06. :rolleyes:

You can make all the excuses you want, and talk about exchange rates and any other Red Herrings you want as well.

Fact is, the Z06 is an amazing car that is a deal and a half by any measure for a showroom stock track car.

I have a great respect for Evo's, and wouldn't mind having one myself, but I also know that pretending like Evo's are some sort of inherently=Z06-romping machines is delusional. Are they great cars? Sure. Can some of them hang with or beat some Corvettes? Sure. Are they, or a Civic for that matter, God's gift to racing? No... and neither are Mustangs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise about ANY car is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Damn... you've been on this site almost as long as I've been on 3.8 :eek: :beerchug:

[ODUB]

bed time for me....I have to go to work so i can continue making payments on my poor-handling, cheaply designed piece of crap GTO....

I'll check back into this one tomorrow eveninf if it's still here....

i'm sorry...can't resist...the GTO is cheaply made, the pedals are a bitch for trying to heel-toe, BUT it actually does handle pretty well because it's a rebadged Holden Monaro, which was designed and built in Australia. i actually don't have anything against the GTO. it's a damn good drift car, and setup right, they can handle. but that's because americans didn't design it lol

[ODUB]

And he virtually did a burnout off the line in the Z06. :rolleyes:

You can make all the excuses you want, and talk about exchange rates and any other Red Herrings you want as well.

Fact is, the Z06 is an amazing car that is a deal and a half by any measure for a showroom stock track car.

I have a great respect for Evo's, and wouldn't mind having one myself, but I also know that pretending like Evo's are some sort of inherently=Z06-romping machines is delusional. Are they great cars? Sure. Can some of them hang with or beat some Corvettes? Sure. Are they, or a Civic for that matter, God's gift to racing? No... and neither are Mustangs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise about ANY car is setting themselves up for disappointment.

the point i'm making is that you are trying to compare what the UK only FQ-400 would cost us in the US, based on it's price in the UK. then why would you compare that to what we would pay in the US for the Z06? why not make it fair? compare what they would pay for the Z06 over there. the FQ-400 would actually cost a lot more than that because you'd have to import that bitch, i don't even want to get into how much that would cost.... point is, keep the price comparo even.

the point i was making with the FQ-400 is that an EVO with the same power as a Vette will beat the Vette hands down. YOU CAN GET AN EVO WITH 400hp for less than 94k. i said that already, guess you missed it. you can get an RS for 28k, dump 2k into it and push 400hp and smoke the C6 in everything. for a little more, and still far less than the Z06, you can get an EVO up to 500hp, and with that much power the EVO will eat the Z06's ass.

you are right though, nobody should cite the mustang as the flagship for american handling performance. it's a brick. the vette is a good handling car, but it could be a lot better. i never said civics were god's gift to racing, but there suspension design is a lot better than mustangs when it comes to going around a corner.

[xonic]

And he virtually did a burnout off the line in the Z06. :rolleyes:

You can make all the excuses you want, and talk about exchange rates and any other Red Herrings you want as well.

Fact is, the Z06 is an amazing car that is a deal and a half by any measure for a showroom stock track car.

I have a great respect for Evo's, and wouldn't mind having one myself, but I also know that pretending like Evo's are some sort of inherently=Z06-romping machines is delusional. Are they great cars? Sure. Can some of them hang with or beat some Corvettes? Sure. Are they, or a Civic for that matter, God's gift to racing? No... and neither are Mustangs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise about ANY car is setting themselves up for disappointment.

but but but.... so what if it's faster, put 30k into an evo (o wait what he used that one) well the vette will lose it's value faster than the Ev.... o wait (used that one too)... the interior is crap (but the spartan evo interior is luxury right?)...it's American it wont last....blah blah blah he'll never stop with the excuses. He has an unfounded discord for any American vehicle and will find any justification (no matter how ridiculous) to put it down. Trying to debate with with this guy is pointless, it'd be easier to teach a rock to roll over.

[Blown330]

you should also know that one test, by one tester, on one track, doesn't mean much.



You say this, yet earlier you posted this in another thread:

i'm going to find the video i have of an EVO 7 (which is a lot slower around a road course than an EVO IX), racing with an R34 GTR, porsche, ferrari 360, and C5 Vette all running. the porsche was first with the GTR right behind, then the EVO 7 right behind. any one of those top 3 could have won, but there weren't many good places to pass on the course. the vette was dead last. EVO 7 vs C5 vette seems like a good indication of what would happen with an EVO IX and C6. i know the C6 is a lot better than the C5, but the EVO IX is also a lot better than the 7. vettes are good around a road course, i'm not saying they aren't, but they won't take an EVO IX.


So you say one thing and post another....good job. Hypocrite...:rotfl:

[ODUB]

You say this, yet earlier you posted this in another thread:




So you say one thing and post another....good job. Hypocrite...:rotfl:


i know what i said. i said it doesn't mean much. that other guy was sticking to his find like it was the end all, be all guide to the performance of every car on that list. i cited that video as a guide to suggest what would happen if the two cars ran. i didn't say it was LAW like that other kid did. that's the difference between those two statements. i guess if everything is not spelled out in big neon letters, you don't get it lol ever hear of the word "subtle?" lol


thanks for trying though :thumbsup:

[Blown330]

Nope...you've just kept saying the same garbage over and over. You say one thing, back track, say something else, then get caught in between. You have no credibility at all.




But you are surely making this funny for the rest of us.

[ODUB]

Nope...you've just kept saying the same garbage over and over. You say one thing, back track, say something else, then get caught in between. You have no credibility at all.




But you are surely making this funny for the rest of us.

well, that was such an excellent, well put together rebuttal. how will i ever compete with that... i dunno, but here goes: it's not my fault that your reading comprehension skills haven't progressed far enough to pick up on the subtle differences that completely separate those two statements. i didn't back track. i stand by both statements because they are both valid. american cars can't turn, and the american educational system couldn't teach you how to comprehend what you've read. not a good night for the US.

[magnEsium]

I can fondle my balls better than American cars handle

Then again, I do that quite well :spin:

[orangekeebler]

you're comparing a special edition mustang cobra R to a stock civic LX.... dumbass. take a civic Si, and a mustang GT, see which one does what around a corner. as for that cobra R, put as much money as that thing costs stock into that civic, and it'll eat that mustang's ass. or hell, grab a DC2 integra Type R and run it against a mustang GT and see what happens. the ITR would whoop that mustangs ass with no problem at all.

you said any civic to any mustang, fucking dumbass.

and you are still a fucking idiot thinking a mustang cant corner.

[orangekeebler]

you're not proving anybody wrong, you're just proving that your tastes are different than mine when it comes to cars. i like well built, well balanced cars that can do more than go fast in a straight line. i also happen to enjoy cars who's interior's weren't made by fisher price. and just for the hell of it, i tend to go for cars who's value doesn't drop $20k in the first year. but hey, that's just me.

nice cars...lots of power... not much else. cheaply made, cheap interiors, clunky gearboxes, numb steering, not especially great on handling, but hey, they've got a lot of power and they look cool. look up what foriegn automotive journalists have to say about the cars you just listed in their reviews. Top Gear comes to mind. american cars are the biggest jokes in the automotive world in every country but america because other countries realize that a cars performance isn't all about big hp numbers.


so the c6 z06 is a shitty made car? yeah..ok..

it only out performs the italian super cars and is a fraction of the price. yeah..thats really shitty alright.

you are fucking stupid, its been proven.

and the saleen s7 not a balanced car? :rotfl: wow, you need help kid.

[orangekeebler]

i meant any NORMAL mustang. like a mustang, or mustang GT. i wasn't talking about a special racing edition that costs twice as much as the base car. i didn't think i had to spell it out that much for you people lol. i should have also said integra, but integra's and civics are based on the same chassis, so i included those in my mind, forgot to type it out haha.

but yeah, i still stick by that. give me a 99 civic Si, 99 integra R, and a 99 stang GT, and a corner, and we'll see what happens. or give me an 06 Civic Si, 06 RSX-S and 06 stang GT and a corner. it's all the same. the mustang is a brick on wheels with a solid rear axle...yeah, that was made to go around a corner haha c'mon now

the cobra r is a normal, stock mustang. you said "any" civic vs "any" mustang.

did you not?

lmao..so an 06 gt cant corner? fucking dumbass.


oh, and heres another balls out american made car for you:

http://www.supercars.dk/images/products/wallpaper-ford-gt-car.jpg
and you STILL think american cars are the laughing stock of the world? wow..

[orangekeebler]

oh, and yeah sometimes i do just say shit to piss y'all off because it's so damn easy haha. i get bored, and you guys seem to take this shit sooooo seriously. c'mon man, it's just the internet. lighten up.

but, i do still contend that american cars suck. i'm sorry, i just don't like them. they don't handle well, they are poorly built, and have horribly cheap interiors. why do the vette, SSR, and cavalier all share the same radio, and buttons?

and OMG, but LEAF SPRINGS? leaf spring rear suspension on chevy's flagship performance car??? c'mon now.

i also stick by the fact that the EVO will manhandle a vette around a road course. and since y'all wanna throw in ringers like the Cobra R, how about we bring in the EVO Fq-400? with only 400hp, it will take out a Lambo Merc around a road course, and i don't even have to tell you what it would do to the 400hp vette. with the same power, the EVO does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. 0-100 in 9 seconds. i don't see how anybody would believe that the Vette will out corner an EVO... that's just dumb lol. the most sophisticated AWD drivetrain on the planet, no sir, vette goes down. ESPECIALLY if you wanna bring in a model with ACD and AYC. i would get into how all those systems work, but it's been a long day and i'm kinda tired lol basically the ACD shifts the tq split from front to rear, and the AYC does it from side to side. in some instances, the car can actually be one wheel drive through a corner sending 100% of the car's tq to the outside rear wheel to make it turn. the car bases these things on a battery of inputs from various sensors...wheel speed, steering angle, slip angle, traction, etc... anywho, leaf springs suck.

point is, american cars weren't designed with turning in mind.


i just read your the first part of this and skipped the rest.

you did not post anything cause you were bored. you got called out and now you have nothing to stand on. you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, and its been seen by everyone in this thread.

leave.

[DarkMatter]

[insert image of Ford GT here]

:drool: :drool:

:giggitygiggity:

[orangekeebler]

clarkson owned the ford GT because it was designed, tested, tuned, and put together by foriegn companies, then badged by ford. do some research son. the ford GT is an american car in name only

no, its not.

[blainestang]

i know what i said. i said it doesn't mean much. that other guy was sticking to his find like it was the end all, be all guide to the performance of every car on that list. i cited that video as a guide to suggest what would happen if the two cars ran. i didn't say it was LAW like that other kid did. that's the difference between those two statements. i guess if everything is not spelled out in big neon letters, you don't get it lol ever hear of the word "subtle?" lol


thanks for trying though :thumbsup:

The entire thread, you're acting like Top Gear is the Bible of automotive knowledge and journalism, but then, when it directly contradicts what you've been saying on several points, "that's only ONE instance." :rolleyes:


Damn... you've been on this site almost as long as I've been on 3.8 :eek: :beerchug:

Yeah, not sure how I ended up here way back when. Probably just because it was REALLY active at the time.

[magnEsium]

91 civic hatchback > 2007 mustang gt500

[magnEsium]

stock Evo > Ferrari Enzo

[magnEsium]

my penis > your penis

[blainestang]

clarkson owned the ford GT because it was designed, tested, tuned, and put together by foriegn companies, then badged by ford. do some research son. the ford GT is an american car in name only

Seriously... did you REALLY say this? I must have missed it (or you deleted it when you realized how idiotic it was).

I could have sworn that Roush (Engine) and Saleen (Assembly) were American companies :confused:

[NightshadeGT]

For the statement that a C6 can't beat an IX on a road course...Lightning Lap best times at VIR raceway

Corvette C6 3:03.6

Evo IX MR 3:13.5

That's almost 10 seconds, you can't even blame that on driver error.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11755/the-lightning-lap-2006-ll1-under-30000-page4.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13179/2007-chevrolet-corvette.html

Somehow that cheap POS American car is wrecking lap times off the 997 911 Turbo, Audi R8 and base 911.

[RSX Factor]

...
*Complete break from this thread*

Hey I was just looking at your setup, are you running a 4.10 gear with your Whipple???
I've had several guys tell me to go with the 3.73 if I want to get a SC later.

* I now return you to this bat shit crazy thread*

[Leebunnyz]

*Complete break from this thread*

Hey I was just looking at your setup, are you running a 4.10 gear with your Whipple???
I've had several guys tell me to go with the 3.73 if I want to get a SC later.

* I now return you to this bat shit crazy thread*


3.73's are better when going F/I because with 4.10's and all that power you will be spinning all of 1st gear and half of 2nd gear unless you have some good drag radials

[blainestang]

For the statement that a C6 can't beat an IX on a road course...Lightning Lap best times at VIR raceway

Corvette C6 3:03.6

Evo IX MR 3:13.5

That's almost 10 seconds, you can't even blame that on driver error.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11755/the-lightning-lap-2006-ll1-under-30000-page4.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13179/2007-chevrolet-corvette.html

Somehow that cheap POS American car is wrecking lap times off the 997 911 Turbo, Audi R8 and base 911.


LEAF SPRINGS!!! Come ON!!! The Corvette should be using a much more expensive setup... because Top Gear (and of course, ODUB) says so!!!

[RSX Factor]

3.73's are better when going F/I because with 4.10's and all that power you will be spinning all of 1st gear and half of 2nd gear unless you have some good drag radials

Also I thought 2 different people told me they had to shift to 5th just before reaching the 1/4 mile line.

[Leebunnyz]

Also I thought 2 different people told me they had to shift to 5th just before reaching the 1/4 mile line.

no its to 4th

[ODUB]

Seriously... did you REALLY say this? I must have missed it (or you deleted it when you realized how idiotic it was).

I could have sworn that Roush (Engine) and Saleen (Assembly) were American companies :confused:

what about engineering, suspension, and design? those are pretty important areas of production.

[ODUB]

For the statement that a C6 can't beat an IX on a road course...Lightning Lap best times at VIR raceway

Corvette C6 3:03.6

Evo IX MR 3:13.5

That's almost 10 seconds, you can't even blame that on driver error.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11755/the-lightning-lap-2006-ll1-under-30000-page4.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13179/2007-chevrolet-corvette.html

Somehow that cheap POS American car is wrecking lap times off the 997 911 Turbo, Audi R8 and base 911.


lol as for car and driver, in one of their "competitions" a cobalt SS had higher corner entry AND exit speeds than an EVO IX MR, a 350Z track edition, and plenty of other cars that should have destroyed that pathetic little car. SO A STOCK FF COBALT SS had higher CORNER EXIT speeds than an AWD EVO IX MR???? want to talk about driver error? there's no way in hell it was the cars. after reading the review, they didn't do a very good job of driving the EVO at all. they can't launch them (that's why their test times are always close to a full second off what the car can do), and they drive them as if they are FF cars and not AWD. there's a difference in the style, trust me. i'm not familiar with that road course, i'll have to go check it out. like i said earlier, on a course with a lot of str8's, the Vette has the upper hand because of the power. any one of those cars is still a better handling car than the vette. the power won, not it's suspension. and the whole time, they got to enjoy that wonderful cavalier radio around the track lol

[blainestang]

what about engineering, suspension, and design? those are pretty important areas of production.

The lead engineer at Saleen was the lead engineer on the Ford GT... the same guy who was lead engineer for the S7 project. You know, that POS American supercar that produces enough downforce @ 160mph to counter it's own weight and theoretically drive upside down. Yeah, that American pile of engineering retardation.

Let me guess, your Evo has a better interior than the S7?


BTW, the original GT-40 shape turned out to be crap for aero, producing a surprising amount of lift... but the Ford GT had to keep a similar shape. Well, those redneck morons at Ford were able to meet aerodynamic goals mostly by undercar aero, while still keeping the classic shape and without adding huge wings. Oh, and Ford engineers managed 217mph w/ said aero improvements.

But seriously, it only has, like, 1 cubic foot of storage space. :thumbsdow

[COOLERMAN2007]

C:\Documents and Settings\Guy Buchler\My Documents\My Pictures\Absolute 2nd Annual Car Show Pasadena July 8th 2007

[00h22]

I'll be checking this thread regularly lol.

[blainestang]

C:\Documents and Settings\Guy Buchler\My Documents\My Pictures\Absolute 2nd Annual Car Show Pasadena July 8th 2007

Ummm... you can't link to your own computer. Well, you can, but we can't see it :)

[00h22]

lmao

[RSX Factor]

no its to 4th

lol, I thought I must have that wrong or they were really burning through the gears.

[NightshadeGT]

*Complete break from this thread*

Hey I was just looking at your setup, are you running a 4.10 gear with your Whipple???
I've had several guys tell me to go with the 3.73 if I want to get a SC later.

* I now return you to this bat shit crazy thread*

Yep, I'd probably recommend a 3.73 too if you run a SC on this car. I have tall DR's(Nitto NT555R 305/45/18) that let me go through the 1/4 in 4th and effectively make my gear a 3.84 so its not too bad.

[GSRGuy94]

Yeah, not sure how I ended up here way back when. Probably just because it was REALLY active at the time.

Yeah, the first day I was on here, I had over a hundred posts :ugh: :eek:

[jaydmrsx03]

i have subscribed to this thread and the one below it, about odub smoking a c6, check it if you haven't read it yet

[RSX Factor]

Yep, I'd probably recommend a 3.73 too if you run a SC on this car. I have tall DR's(Nitto NT555R 305/45/18) that let me go through the 1/4 in 4th and effectively make my gear a 3.84 so its not too bad.

Damn, I'm running KDWs 285/40/18 and I thought that was big.
Would that make enough difference or do you think I should still go with the 3.73?
In all honesty thought shifting into 4th on the track is not a big worry for me. I'll probably just stick with the 3.73 since it's my daily driver.

[blainestang]

Yeah, the first day I was on here, I had over a hundred posts :ugh: :eek:

:eek: ... Nice

[NightshadeGT]

Damn, I'm running KDWs 285/40/18 and I thought that was big.
Would that make enough difference or do you think I should still go with the 3.73?
In all honesty thought shifting into 4th on the track is not a big worry for me. I'll probably just stick with the 3.73 since it's my daily driver.

I think the 3.73's will be fine. If you're looking into a centrifugal type blower, a 4.10 is a better gear because it gets you into higher revs faster but with the twin screw I was looking to take some out for traction purposes hence the taller tires.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

i'm sorry...can't resist...the GTO is cheaply made, the pedals are a bitch for trying to heel-toe, BUT it actually does handle pretty well because it's a rebadged Holden Monaro, which was designed and built in Australia. i actually don't have anything against the GTO. it's a damn good drift car, and setup right, they can handle. but that's because americans didn't design it lol

I don't see that it's cheaply made. I happen to think the interior in particular is absolutely AWESOME, but to each their own...I guess "cheap" is subjective really.

I agree that the pedals aren't hell toe-friendly, but that's easy to fix.

I'm aware that it's a monaro although it seems that you're implying it would suck IF ONLY it was designed in this country?

I think that might be a little biased on your part. It's already been pointed out by someone who is (for lack of a better term) on "your team" in this thread that road conditions influence suspension settings on American cars quite a bit.

If that's the case, is it really fair to say that Americans can't DESIGN sports cars??? The road conditions argument to me, implies that concessions are made to things like spring rate and damper firmness in the interest of ride quality. Wouldn't you say then that simply stiffening up the suspension improves everything greatly?

it would logically follow then that the DESIGN of American-made cars is not the problem....merely the suspension settings. ;)

Personally, despite the fact that a corvette uses transverse leaf springs (yes, I said it!), I don't find there to be anything WRONG with it. Corvettes handle well and the Z06 is simply awesome. in short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it....

[orangekeebler]

http://www.scca.com/_FileLibrary/File/Pro%20Solo%20Finale%20Sat%20Final%20.pdf


Mustangs don't really do well competitively in stock classes, and if you notice in the FWD stock classes, there are lower times than many RWD cars. The 240 doing well in STS2 was a huge upset that year for the Civic Si. Granted, there are a few special edition Mustangs that handle pretty well, but if we're going to talk about handling, Mustangs really aren't the American car to brag about.

we arent saying they are the epitomy of a turning car, but they arent 'that' bad as everyone seems to think they are.

[orangekeebler]

5 Ariel Atom 1.19.5

That's what you should be looking at the closest. It gets around the track by having a great suspension, not because it has power. That's why autox is a decent measurement of a car's ability to handle because power doesn't enter into the equation quite as much. Though the Stig did drive the hell out of that Z06, that's a great time, faster than those beautiful but weird TVRs.

not really. it makes ~300whp and weighs like 1200 lbs...if that. it can corner better becasue of its shape/setup and accelerate like a bat out of hell.

[orangekeebler]

yeah i saw that EVO FQ-400 test run. wasn't the best run the stig's ever had. he dropped off boost and made an error or two. there's more than one car on that list that could have gone faster if the runs had been cleaner. you should also know that one test, by one tester, on one track, doesn't mean much. any car can beat any other car on any given day under the right circumstances.

as far as the money thing, how about you compare how much the Z06 costs in the UK. it's more than the 70k it costs here. also, you can build an EVO with 400hp yourself for a lot less than 94k. it can be done for 30k with an RS model.

please, stop with the fucking excuses. anytime you are proven wrong you have a "well, this or that happened" or "this wasnt right" statement. stfu.

[Midnight Blue LS2]

not really. it makes ~300whp and weighs like 1200 lbs...if that. it can corner better becasue of its shape/setup and accelerate like a bat out of hell.

I said that exact thing already...didn't get a response....:p

[orangekeebler]

I said that exact thing already...didn't get a response....:p

i hadn't seen it when i posted that yet..but yeah, i saw that later on. looks like both statements were skipped over. :p

i just dont get some people. and that one dude said this guy is almost 30? wow...

[Machina]

I didn't respond because 300 horsepower isn't nearly as much as a Zonda S is making, or a Koenigsegg. It doesn't use power as its primary means of getting around a track, it uses intelligent engineering, like less weight and an excellent suspension. Horsepower is overwhelmingly important in races that require higher speeds, that's what horsepower IS-> a pushing force (wind resistance). You're the kind of people who laugh at 300 horsepower.... :(

[Boost_inthebox]

I love the solid rear argument earlier in this thread. All of the cobra guys I know fucking hate their IRS.

I'm one to take everything with a grain of salt but buying a cheaper, lower status car and spending money to make it out perform a more expensive platform is pointless. You will inevitably max out the possibilities of the cheaper car, when you could have went with the more costly car in the beginning and start higher on the ladder, and end up higher on the ladder still in the end of everything.


Wow that is confusing.

[orangekeebler]

I didn't respond because 300 horsepower isn't nearly as much as a Zonda S is making, or a Koenigsegg. It doesn't use power as its primary means of getting around a track, it uses intelligent engineering, like less weight and an excellent suspension. Horsepower is overwhelmingly important in races that require higher speeds, that's what horsepower IS-> a pushing force (wind resistance). You're the kind of people who laugh at 300 horsepower.... :(

i dont laugh at it..

but 300whp in a ~1200 pound 'car' is very extreme. the zonda and the like are all making WELL above 300...

[Machina]

I don't think you understand. The Zonda and Koenigsegg make much more horsepower. That's primarily what gets them such good times. In relation to the other cars on that list, the Atom is a lower horsepower vehicle. Why does it do so well without power? Engineering prowess.

[ODUB]

I don't think you understand. The Zonda and Koenigsegg make much more horsepower. That's primarily what gets them such good times. In relation to the other cars on that list, the Atom is a lower horsepower vehicle. Why does it do so well without power? Engineering prowess.

thank you. the same point i've been making about the vette. it beats other cars with it's power, not it's superior engineering.

[Machina]

I love the solid rear argument earlier in this thread. All of the cobra guys I know fucking hate their IRS.

I'm one to take everything with a grain of salt but buying a cheaper, lower status car and spending money to make it out perform a more expensive platform is pointless. You will inevitably max out the possibilities of the cheaper car, when you could have went with the more costly car in the beginning and start higher on the ladder, and end up higher on the ladder still in the end of everything.


Wow that is confusing.

A man who autoxs with me bought an old beautiful Cobra kit car, but he made the decision to replace its rear suspension with an IRS from an old Cougar, I believe it was. He's very knowledgeable on the matter, and since he autoxs it he does car greatly about its handling. Maybe it's just with that specific car, but he seemed to think that it was necessary in making the car better at handling. It's not as high horsepower/torque as new Cobras are, so if there's an argument there for the rear being more durable then I can understand that because Cobras make gobs of torque. As for handling, I think I'd prefer an IRS. Take BMWs for example, they handle so well because of their brilliantly designed rear suspension, that's the key to their performance.

[ODUB]

i have subscribed to this thread and the one below it, about odub smoking a c6, check it if you haven't read it yet

next time you see a short black guy in a silver C6, stop him and ask him if he got beat near the civic center by a gray car with a big wing lol. he's the only short black guy i've seen in a silver C6, so he shouldn't be hard to find.

[ODUB]

independent suspension is a much better design for handling. i don't see how anybody can seriously try to make a valid arguement against that point.

[qwk]

next time you see a short black guy in a silver C6, stop him and ask him if he got beat near the civic center by a gray car with a big wing lol. he's the only short black guy i've seen in a silver C6, so he shouldn't be hard to find.

:rotfl:

[ODUB]

:rotfl:

haha, yeah i laughed when i typed it too...but yeah, that's the easiest way to prove it

[Blown330]

It's a fucking DOT legal go-kart. I've worked on Formula SAE cars that would put a Atom to shame. When you have a car that weighs significantly less than a sub-compact econobox it does NOT take a super level of engineering. In fact it makes the engineering considerably easier. In fact you think the engineering is so significant go check out books on racecars from the early 1960's or so. Be surprised at how much of the suspension system the Atom uses was used back then too.


Oh...here's a quote from the Atom's website:

...the power to weight ratio exceeds that of most supercars giving phenomenal performance and track times comparable with pure race cars.

[Machina]

Think of it kind of like this. Say you have a math problem, and you want to prove that a = b. Now, one way of doing this is having tons and tons of long equations, I mean pages of Calculus problems that eventually prove that a = b. The other way is more elegant and it uses two equations to prove that a = b.

And the Atom is a miraculously well-engineered marvel. If you gave me a weight and horsepower, I wouldn't be able to design a car that can hit a turn that well.

[ODUB]

And the Atom is a miraculously well-engineered marvel. If you gave me a weight and horsepower, I wouldn't be able to design a car that can hit a turn that well.


AMEN!! preach on brother!!! can i get a witness from the congregation?

seems like it's almost impossible to make people understand that power/weight ratio doesn't have anything to do with turning.

[Blown330]

Ummm....calculus IS the more elegant way of solving equations. The inelegant way involves pages of simultaneous equations and the hope you can stuff them all into your computer and get an answer.

[Machina]

Blown330, I see your updated post but I think you need to understand that someone said "Hey, instead of making a 3000 pound car with 1000 horsepower, we'll make a 1000 pound car with 300 horsepower." That's the kind of decision making that gets cars like the Atom built and makes it successful. It's a different approach entirely to getting a car around a track.

[Blown330]

Nope...cutting weight out of race cars has been the name of the game since day one. It isn't spontaneously brilliant engineering.....it's common sense. Their execution displays good application of the fundamentals....something any engineering college student knows.


Oh and ODBU...thanks for the new sig.

[Machina]

I still don't think that you quite get what I mean, which may be a fault of me trying to articulate it, but what is at the core of my argument is that if you give two people two problems, and they solve it two different ways, one way is going to be better in some respects than the other, and the other will have its own advantages. That's really what's at the core of different approaches to making cars, and one can say that two different car companies will look at a problem (getting a car around a track fastest) and there will be two different ways of doing this, that's all.

[ODUB]

I still don't think that you quite get what I mean, which may be a fault of me trying to articulate it, but what is at the core of my argument is that if you give two people two problems, and they solve it two different ways, one way is going to be better in some respects than the other, and the other will have its own advantages. That's really what's at the core of different approaches to making cars, and one can say that two different car companies will look at a problem (getting a car around a track fastest) and there will be two different ways of doing this, that's all.

you've explained it simple enough, and in enough different ways that anybody over the age of 4 should be able to understand exactly what you mean. if they still don't get it, then it's not your fault. it's sad they are too dense to understand such a simplified explaination.

i think what makes it tough is that they have no experience setting up a car for the specific purpose of turning, and they don't seem to have much interest in it. they obviously don't understand the differences between suspesion designs and settings, nor do they care to learn. if they had ever done this type of racing, or at least seen it first hand, this arguement wouldn't be this tough, if we'd be having it at all.

since there are problems with reading comprehension all over this thread i'll save you guys the headaches and translate the last two sentences for you. that was a fancy way of saying that you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about because you've never done any of this before. you don't understand why cars handle the way they do, you don't seem to have had a chance to drive anything that actually has GOOD handling. if you've never driven a well set up road race, or autoX car, or at least a car that is designed to handle from the factory (BMW, EVO, STi, etc) then of course your mustang is going to feel like it can handle because you've got nothing to compare it too.

[ODUB]

Nope...cutting weight out of race cars has been the name of the game since day one. It isn't spontaneously brilliant engineering.....it's common sense. Their execution displays good application of the fundamentals....something any engineering college student knows.


Oh and ODBU...thanks for the new sig.


no, thank you for yet another example of a disorder that runs rampant on this site: D.U.S. Don't Understand Shit. you're still missing the point of his arguement, and it's pitiful because he's got it spelled out simple enough for a 4 year old to understand. not only that, but it's almost as if he's got it printed in 72" letters on the side of a bus, and then he's running you over with the bus, and you STILL don't get it. nice job lol. oh, and i see another thing that runs rampant here...typo's. it takes a special type of dumbass to fuck up a screen name that's only got 4 letters in it lol. your parents must be soooo proud of you. you get a silver star for effort.

[Blown330]

you've explained it simple enough, and in enough different ways that anybody over the age of 4 should be able to understand exactly what you mean. if they still don't get it, then it's not your fault. it's sad they are too dense to understand such a simplified explaination.

i think what makes it tough is that they have no experience setting up a car for the specific purpose of turning, and they don't seem to have much interest in it. they obviously don't understand the differences between suspesion designs and settings, nor do they care to learn. if they had ever done this type of racing, or at least seen it first hand, this arguement wouldn't be this tough, if we'd be having it at all.

since there are problems with reading comprehension all over this thread i'll save you guys the headaches and translate the last two sentences for you. that was a fancy way of saying that you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about because you've never done any of this before. you don't understand why cars handle the way they do, you don't seem to have had a chance to drive anything that actually has GOOD handling. if you've never driven a well set up road race, or autoX car, or at least a car that is designed to handle from the factory (BMW, EVO, STi, etc) then of course your mustang is going to feel like it can handle because you've got nothing to compare it too.




And you are the poster child for your own, aply named syndrome. You have never understood anything that has been explained to you in either of the threads you have displayed your willful ignorance in. You critisize me for mispelling your handle and typos (notice there is no ' in typos)? Like anyone here will ever give a fuck about mispelling the handle of your ignorant ass. Like you have significant knowledge of racing here...your dumbass apparently cares more about looks than performance at either end of the spectrum (you post about street racing then use a load of crap about taking corners? Comedy). You have absolutely no technical knowledge from which to draw your conclusions from. Nothing stated on these forums will ever change how you feel. You are biased...painfully so. Throwing your ignorance in your face is an exercise in futility (but at least futile efforts can be entertaining). Further more we all understand (except yourself) what machina is trying to get across....but it doesn't change the FACT that the Atom gets most of its performance pedigree from its minimalist form. Ariel even proudly says so on its OWN WEBPAGE. No one is arguing the car isn't well executed...it certainly isn't breaking any new ground in the performance car arena either.


It is a well accepted understanding that one cannot educate the willingly ignorant....and you are a shining example of this rule.

[ODUB]

And you are the poster child for your own, aply named syndrome. You have never understood anything that has been explained to you in either of the threads you have displayed your willful ignorance in. You critisize me for mispelling your handle and typos (notice there is no ' in typos)? Like anyone here will ever give a fuck about mispelling the handle of your ignorant ass. Like you have significant knowledge of racing here...your dumbass apparently cares more about looks than performance at either end of the spectrum (you post about street racing then use a load of crap about taking corners? Comedy). You have absolutely no technical knowledge from which to draw your conclusions from. Nothing stated on these forums will ever change how you feel. You are biased...painfully so. Throwing your ignorance in your face is an exercise in futility (but at least futile efforts can be entertaining). Further more we all understand (except yourself) what machina is trying to get across....but it doesn't change the FACT that the Atom gets most of its performance pedigree from its minimalist form. Ariel even proudly says so on its OWN WEBPAGE. No one is arguing the car isn't well executed...it certainly isn't breaking any new ground in the performance car arena either.


It is a well accepted understanding that one cannot educate the willingly ignorant....and you are a shining example of this rule.


well that was painful to sit through. i was hoping to find something worth reading, but no... more crap lol. you're making yourself look stupid with that quote in your sig because you still don't get it haha this is classic. just so i have this str8 so me and the smart ones here can laugh.... you think that the power/weight ratio, lb per hp, has something to do with turning? lol i'm not gonna even try to explain this one because it's a lot more fun to let you leave the quote up there like you found something lol you know what, i take it back... GOLD STAR FOR EFFORT haha good job dumbass

[Blown330]

It's spelled "straight". For someone who's so concerned about other people's spelling you sure can't seem to get that one right. Anyway I'm not even going to try spelling it out for you. You don't think weight and power have anything to do with a vehicle's handling characteristics. That's your belief. Your an idiot...but you are cool with that too. The sig quote is so others may learn from your example...just like the other notable quotations you've donated to other members' signatures. Keep them coming, sure you have plenty left to say.

[ODUB]

:rolleyes: you can make a fucking Saturn faster than an evo for 30K....

wow...i can't believe i missed this one hahahahaha

no you can't you fucking moron. you could make it faster in a str8 line, but you couldn't make it faster in every area. it still wouldn't handle like one, be built as well, be as durable, or be able to do all the things the EVO can do. how about you try going off road in that saturn, or launching it off a 50mph jump and see what happens to it.

[ODUB]

It's spelled "straight". For someone who's so concerned about other people's spelling you sure can't seem to get that one right. Anyway I'm not even going to try spelling it out for you. You don't think weight and power have anything to do with a vehicle's handling characteristics. That's your belief. Your an idiot...but you are cool with that too. The sig quote is so others may learn from your example...just like the other notable quotations you've donated to other members' signatures. Keep them coming, sure you have plenty left to say.

and yet another blown opportunity at comprehension. so that's what your name means... like i said, let me get this straight... you can take the car's power/weight ratio only and make it turn better? lol so if the power to weight ratio of a stock mustang was lets say 13lb per hp and i lowered it to 10lb per hp, it's going to turn better now? haha

[Blown330]

...the power to weight ratio exceeds that of most supercars giving phenomenal performance and track times comparable with pure race cars.


Make it simple for you. You think you know more than the engineers that designed the car who's case you are so stupidly trying to argue for?



Didn't think so.

[orangekeebler]

A man who autoxs with me bought an old beautiful Cobra kit car, but he made the decision to replace its rear suspension with an IRS from an old Cougar, I believe it was. He's very knowledgeable on the matter, and since he autoxs it he does car greatly about its handling. Maybe it's just with that specific car, but he seemed to think that it was necessary in making the car better at handling. It's not as high horsepower/torque as new Cobras are, so if there's an argument there for the rear being more durable then I can understand that because Cobras make gobs of torque. As for handling, I think I'd prefer an IRS. Take BMWs for example, they handle so well because of their brilliantly designed rear suspension, that's the key to their performance.

It's a fucking DOT legal go-kart. I've worked on Formula SAE cars that would put a Atom to shame. When you have a car that weighs significantly less than a sub-compact econobox it does NOT take a super level of engineering. In fact it makes the engineering considerably easier. In fact you think the engineering is so significant go check out books on racecars from the early 1960's or so. Be surprised at how much of the suspension system the Atom uses was used back then too.


Oh...here's a quote from the Atom's website:

thats what we are getting at machina. the zonda class of cars still exceed the atom, of course, but for what the atom is, and what it costs, they eat supercars for breakfast shit them out ,and go back for seconds.

[orangekeebler]

AMEN!! preach on brother!!! can i get a witness from the congregation?

seems like it's almost impossible to make people understand that power/weight ratio doesn't have anything to do with turning.

it hurts my brain when you post shit like this.

seriously, do you know anything about..well..anything? other than the shit you read in your monthy car mags?

[orangekeebler]

you've explained it simple enough, and in enough different ways that anybody over the age of 4 should be able to understand exactly what you mean. if they still don't get it, then it's not your fault. it's sad they are too dense to understand such a simplified explaination.

i think what makes it tough is that they have no experience setting up a car for the specific purpose of turning, and they don't seem to have much interest in it. they obviously don't understand the differences between suspesion designs and settings, nor do they care to learn. if they had ever done this type of racing, or at least seen it first hand, this arguement wouldn't be this tough, if we'd be having it at all.

since there are problems with reading comprehension all over this thread i'll save you guys the headaches and translate the last two sentences for you. that was a fancy way of saying that you guys don't know what the hell you're talking about because you've never done any of this before. you don't understand why cars handle the way they do, you don't seem to have had a chance to drive anything that actually has GOOD handling. if you've never driven a well set up road race, or autoX car, or at least a car that is designed to handle from the factory (BMW, EVO, STi, etc) then of course your mustang is going to feel like it can handle because you've got nothing to compare it too.


get the fuck off machina's nuts dude. its getting old. you have no one in this thread on your 'side' other than thim, and hes not really agreeing with you. hes stating facts (which you arent), and your jumping on his nuts like nothing.

[orangekeebler]

no, thank you for yet another example of a disorder that runs rampant on this site: D.U.S. Don't Understand Shit. you're still missing the point of his arguement, and it's pitiful because he's got it spelled out simple enough for a 4 year old to understand. not only that, but it's almost as if he's got it printed in 72" letters on the side of a bus, and then he's running you over with the bus, and you STILL don't get it. nice job lol. oh, and i see another thing that runs rampant here...typo's. it takes a special type of dumbass to fuck up a screen name that's only got 4 letters in it lol. your parents must be soooo proud of you. you get a silver star for effort.

:shakehead please dont make us go back through all your posts and find all your grammar and spelling mistakes. i recall you using "str8" for straight. ive written MANY college term papers, and i never once came across the rule saying i could abbreviate words like that to save on word count. bravo good sir, bravo for teaching us all the correct way to use english.

[orangekeebler]

hahah, i wonder who left me this one:


Thread: mustang such a manly... Neg Rep: fucking pussy fuck ur muscle BS

so mature for a 30 year old arguing about this 4 door econobox.

[DarkMatter]

This place never stops being amusing.

[orangekeebler]

well that was painful to sit through. i was hoping to find something worth reading, but no... more crap lol. you're making yourself look stupid with that quote in your sig because you still don't get it haha this is classic. just so i have this str8 so me and the smart ones here can laugh.... you think that the power/weight ratio, lb per hp, has something to do with turning? lol i'm not gonna even try to explain this one because it's a lot more fun to let you leave the quote up there like you found something lol you know what, i take it back... GOLD STAR FOR EFFORT haha good job dumbass

oh, no. please explain how weight transfer and hp/tq mean nothing for cornering. please, enlighten us all. im sure you have heaps of information on it, to include articles, facts, time trials, webpages, etc.. to prove us all wrong. you talk to a big game, so prove it.

[orangekeebler]

This place never stops being amusing.

this guy is something else.

weve had fankids come in here, but not of this caliber. a guy that knows him even came in here and blew his ass up, and he did nothing..just more excuses and ramblings about 'nothing worth reading there' posts. :shakehead

and hes like 30? :rotfl: i love it.

[magnEsium]

ODUB, if you had a vehicle with a power:weight ratio of 13:1, lowering it to 10:1 to make it handle better doesn't necessarily make complete sense

There are two ways to lower the power to weight ratio and thats by adding power, or reducing weight

adding power doesn't help turn the car, but reducing weight does..

so yes, theoretically, power:weight ratio does effect handling, and dependent on the weight, it can be on a massive scale..

[Machina]

Then it's not power/weight ratio, that's the point. Weight, yes, but not the ratio itself. If anything it would be weight/suspension geometry and quality ratio. But that's for just turning, not necessarily a full race.

[magnEsium]

Then it's not power/weight ratio, that's the point. Weight, yes, but not the ratio itself. If anything it would be weight/suspension geometry and quality ratio. But that's for just turning, not necessarily a full race.

weight affects the ratio, therefore it is power to weight ratio.

[archull]

Some have come up with Valid arguments in here and some people have their heads shoved really far up someone's ass.

I agree with some of the statements about Domestics as a whole. We do not have many American cars that were designed with handling in mind. Our country as a collective whole are more worried about a smooth ride than they are about performance.

I agree that a solid rear axle is a terrible move on any suspension. Why we use it here so abundantly I am still unsure of.

I agree that power to weight ratio is not as important as a good suspension geometry and good engineering.

I disagree that the Evo is gods gift to everything automotive, for gods sake its still a Mitsubishi that we are talking about.

I just think that everyone needs to stop this little petty E-thugging and get on with their lives.

I know from experience from other threads, that once ODUB starts to argue with someone, that he has to always have the last word, if he doesn't this thread with last forever, lol

[DJCarbine]

I know from experience from other threads, that once ODUB starts to argue with someone, that he has to always have the last word, if he doesn't this thread with last forever, lol

:iamwiths: :D

That being said, I have a 66 mustang with a solid axle and minimal suspension mods that will do justice on an autox course. There are tricks you can do to make "bricks" handle, they used to road race these cars. The rules specifically stated that you cannot modify or changeout the suspension and mounting points, only tune the factory parts such as spring rate, sway bar, shock rate etc.

So japanese cars can handle better, american cars are better in a straight line.... both can be made to perform equally in all aspects with MONEY. Live rear axles are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Things like traction bars, sway bars, slide-a-link, and more have been around for ages making solid axles perform. Turbo kits, ECU reflashes, etc have been around to make japanese engines perform. Its pointless arguing about stock to stock configurations, because anyone who cares about anything isn't going to be racing or being competative in a stock car

[ODUB]

hahah, i wonder who left me this one:


Thread: mustang such a manly... Neg Rep: fucking pussy fuck ur muscle BS

so mature for a 30 year old arguing about this 4 door econobox.

haha, sadly i can't take the credit for that one. if it was me, there would at least be some punctuation.

[ODUB]

ODUB, if you had a vehicle with a power:weight ratio of 13:1, lowering it to 10:1 to make it handle better doesn't necessarily make complete sense

There are two ways to lower the power to weight ratio and thats by adding power, or reducing weight

adding power doesn't help turn the car, but reducing weight does..

so yes, theoretically, power:weight ratio does effect handling, and dependent on the weight, it can be on a massive scale..

yes, i know all of this. weight makes a difference, power doesn't, so the power/weight ratio isn't important. the WEIGHT is. the power part doesn't have anything to do with it. i didn't want to explain that because it's just a lot funnier to let the stupid people keep saying stuff like if the car makes more power, it'll turn better lol

[ODUB]

:iamwiths: :D

That being said, I have a 66 mustang with a solid axle and minimal suspension mods that will do justice on an autox course. There are tricks you can do to make "bricks" handle, they used to road race these cars. The rules specifically stated that you cannot modify or changeout the suspension and mounting points, only tune the factory parts such as spring rate, sway bar, shock rate etc.

So japanese cars can handle better, american cars are better in a straight line.... both can be made to perform equally in all aspects with MONEY. Live rear axles are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Things like traction bars, sway bars, slide-a-link, and more have been around for ages making solid axles perform. Turbo kits, ECU reflashes, etc have been around to make japanese engines perform. Its pointless arguing about stock to stock configurations, because anyone who cares about anything isn't going to be racing or being competative in a stock car

we discussed that on the first or second page...there's been so much, i don't remember where haha...yes, you can make ANYTHING handle with the right amount of money. we were discussing the factory's design of the cars, not what we can do to correct what the factory screwed up. as far as this japanese cars vs american cars, this has pretty much been an american cars vs the rest of the world's cars type of thing. american cars are not the best at anything. the fastest cars in the world in a str8 line aren't american.

[ODUB]

Some have come up with Valid arguments in here and some people have their heads shoved really far up someone's ass.

I agree with some of the statements about Domestics as a whole. We do not have many American cars that were designed with handling in mind. Our country as a collective whole are more worried about a smooth ride than they are about performance.

I agree that a solid rear axle is a terrible move on any suspension. Why we use it here so abundantly I am still unsure of.

I agree that power to weight ratio is not as important as a good suspension geometry and good engineering.

I disagree that the Evo is gods gift to everything automotive, for gods sake its still a Mitsubishi that we are talking about.

I just think that everyone needs to stop this little petty E-thugging and get on with their lives.

I know from experience from other threads, that once ODUB starts to argue with someone, that he has to always have the last word, if he doesn't this thread with last forever, lol


thanks for some backup lol nobody said the EVO was gods gift to anything, even though it is a beast in every area of motorsport that it competes in, but there are cars that are made a lot better, and perform better. one big one comes to mind...GTR... and i still contend that if honda made the EVO, it would be a better car. it's not that i have to have the last word, i just can't leave when there are still people saying that more power will make a better handling car haha.

[NightshadeGT]

the fastest cars in the world in a str8 line aren't american.

Really, I missed the part where these weren't the fastest 1/4 mile cars with an American built motor.

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~newman24/Topfuel.jpg

[ODUB]

Really, I missed the part where these weren't the fastest 1/4 mile cars with an American built motor.

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~newman24/Topfuel.jpg

this is what happens when people come in on the 9th page, but don't have a large enough attention span to read what's going on before posting... nice. that's a drag racing car. that's not a stock american made vehicle...you know, the types of cars we were talking about?

[DarkMatter]

they could come in on page 566...and you'd still be just as stupid.

[NightshadeGT]

this is what happens when people come in on the 9th page, but don't have a large enough attention span to read what's going on before posting... nice. that's a drag racing car. that's not a stock american made vehicle...you know, the types of cars we were talking about?

OK, Saleen S7 TT can do the 1/4 in low 10s for a stock car.

[magnEsium]

OK, Saleen S7 TT can do the 1/4 in low 10s for a stock car.

:eek: imagine turning up the boost!

[ODUB]

OK, Saleen S7 TT can do the 1/4 in low 10s for a stock car.

two words... bugatti veyron

[magnEsium]

two words... bugatti veyron

too bad that does it in 10.8 seconds lol

[ODUB]

too bad that does it in 10.8 seconds lol

i dunno where you're getting your info from, but the veyron is the fastest production car on the planet. 0-60 2.68 seconds. top speed of 253mph. that's probably why saleen neglected to include the veyron on the list of cars they compare the S7 to on their website.

S7 0-60 is 2.8 seconds, top speed of 248mph
Bugatti Veyron 0-60 is 2.68 seconds, top speed of 253mph

go Bugatti

[Machina]

weight affects the ratio, therefore it is power to weight ratio.

You are incorrect in a sense, though correct in another. You're saying "I have a car, and I want to make it faster around corners, so I improve its weight to power ratio by decreasing its weight." The goal of getting a car around a corner isn't improving that ratio, so much as minimizing weight as its own end. No, that ratio is unimportant in a standalone sense, because say I have two entirely different cars, one with a p/w ratio of 10:1. I have another car that has a p/w ratio of 5:1. Mind you, knowing NOTHING ELSE of these cars, these two statistics alone will NOT tell you which car can move about a corner better. Thus, it is not the ratio itself, the ratio being affected is an externality of decreasing weight. So you are correct in thinking that by dropping weight, that ratio increases, but that ratio itself doesn't determine a car getting around a car as a whole. That ratio is for acceleration.

If you want to improve a car's turning capabilities, you decrease weight for turning, and also in doing that the power/weight ratio happens to increase, but you don't say "I'll give it more power to make it turn better" do you? Thus, it is the weight part of that ratio that matters, in other words, weight matters, not the ratio of the interaction between weight and power. Do you understand now?

[Leebunnyz]

what about the dodge viper Hennessey Venom? the bugatti beats it in the quarter mile by like a second but in a mile race the viper is 4 seconds faster...bugatti is still a way better car by far but i guess it all depends where the finish line is at

[ODUB]

what about the dodge viper Hennessey Venom? the bugatti beats it in the quarter mile by like a second but in a mile race the viper is 4 seconds faster...bugatti is still a way better car by far but i guess it all depends where the finish line is at

good point about the finish line. i don't really count the Hennessey Venom in this discussion though because that's not a factory stock vehicle. that's a special edition created by a tuning company.

[carnage]

i dunno where you're getting your info from, but the veyron is the fastest production car on the planet. 0-60 2.68 seconds. top speed of 253mph. that's probably why saleen neglected to include the veyron on the list of cars they compare the S7 to on their website.

S7 0-60 is 2.8 seconds, top speed of 248mph
Bugatti Veyron 0-60 is 2.68 seconds, top speed of 253mph

go Bugatti

Of course, with your dumbass logic, if Honda made the Bugatti, it would be
43920843920842930284902384 millions times better.

[drumnatural]

My head hurts

[drumnatural]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/fordblahblah.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[W1lson]

hi guys!

[orangekeebler]

we discussed that on the first or second page...there's been so much, i don't remember where haha...yes, you can make ANYTHING handle with the right amount of money. we were discussing the factory's design of the cars, not what we can do to correct what the factory screwed up. as far as this japanese cars vs american cars, this has pretty much been an american cars vs the rest of the world's cars type of thing. american cars are not the best at anything. the fastest cars in the world in a str8 line aren't american.


[insert c6 z06 here]

[orangekeebler]

two words... bugatti veyron

1 import? there are a handful of american cars that are quicker down the 1/4 than several imports. and they do it for a fraction of the price.

[Boost_inthebox]

no, thank you for yet another example of a disorder that runs rampant on this site: D.U.S. Don't Understand Shit. you're still missing the point of his arguement, and it's pitiful because he's got it spelled out simple enough for a 4 year old to understand. not only that, but it's almost as if he's got it printed in 72" letters on the side of a bus, and then he's running you over with the bus, and you STILL don't get it. nice job lol. oh, and i see another thing that runs rampant here...typo's. it takes a special type of dumbass to fuck up a screen name that's only got 4 letters in it lol. your parents must be soooo proud of you. you get a silver star for effort.

and you are the kind of dumbass who will use an apostrophe on a plural word. good job :thumbsup:

[ODUB]

Of course, with your dumbass logic, if Honda made the Bugatti, it would be
43920843920842930284902384 millions times better.

um...okay? haha :ugh:

[ODUB]

1 import? there are a handful of american cars that are quicker down the 1/4 than several imports. and they do it for a fraction of the price.

you guys love taking things out of context. the bugatti veyron was in answer to the assertion that the saleen S7 TT was the fastest production car in the world...it isn't. also, we've already beaten the point to death that anything can go fast in a str8 line. you're not paying for only str8 line performance when you buy an import such as a BMW or Audi, or even a Honda. you pay for build quality, quality materials, safety, reliability, comfort, handling, etc. if you want to talk str8 line performance, i could drop a Z06 motor in an Aveo and it would desimate all in a str8 line for "a fraction of the price," but it wouldn't be a performance value. it would be a POS that's fast in a str8 line.

[Boost_inthebox]

i dunno where you're getting your info from, but the veyron is the fastest production car on the planet. 0-60 2.68 seconds. top speed of 253mph. that's probably why saleen neglected to include the veyron on the list of cars they compare the S7 to on their website.

S7 0-60 is 2.8 seconds, top speed of 248mph
Bugatti Veyron 0-60 is 2.68 seconds, top speed of 253mph

go Bugatti

but too bad we aren't talking about 0-60 acceleration and top speed. we are talking about quarter mile times and the veyron gets beat. run along and stop using excuses. they call it the fastest production car because of the top speed, not the acceleration. hence FAST, not quick.

[ODUB]

but too bad we aren't talking about 0-60 acceleration and top speed. we are talking about quarter mile times and the veyron gets beat. run along and stop using excuses. they call it the fastest production car because of the top speed, not the acceleration. hence FAST, not quick.

lol so the veyron isn't quick? and where does it get beat in the 1/4th mile? find me a credible source that shows a car that's a tenth quicker to 60 than the S7 losing in the 1/4 mile...and please, say that again so everybody can read this.... the veryon isn't quick? haha and since when is the 1/4 mile the end all be all definitive bar for automotive performance. the veryon beats everything in every other area of acceleration, but because of the 1/4 mile, IF it even loses, it's not quick, and doesn't perform as well? do you even read this stuff before you post it? lol that's like saying if two teams play a basketball game and team one out performs team two in every category but assists... rebounding, steals, blocks, AND points, team two is a better team lol

[carnage]

lol so the veyron isn't quick? and where does it get beat in the 1/4th mile? find me a credible source that shows a car that's a tenth quicker to 60 than the S7 losing in the 1/4 mile...and please, say that again so everybody can read this.... the veryon isn't quick? haha and since when is the 1/4 mile the end all be all definitive bar for automotive performance. the veryon beats everything in every other area of acceleration, but because of the 1/4 mile, IF it even loses, it's not quick, and doesn't perform as well? do you even read this stuff before you post it? lol that's like saying if two teams play a basketball game and team one out performs team two in every category but assists... rebounding, steals, blocks, AND points, team two is a better team lol

would you rather have a honda civic or a veyron? I'm *thinking* that you'd rather have the civic, because of how much ejaculate you have displayed for them.

[Blown330]

lol so the veyron isn't quick? and where does it get beat in the 1/4th mile? find me a credible source that shows a car that's a tenth quicker to 60 than the S7 losing in the 1/4 mile...and please, say that again so everybody can read this.... the veryon isn't quick? haha and since when is the 1/4 mile the end all be all definitive bar for automotive performance. the veryon beats everything in every other area of acceleration, but because of the 1/4 mile, IF it even loses, it's not quick, and doesn't perform as well? do you even read this stuff before you post it? lol that's like saying if two teams play a basketball game and team one out performs team two in every category but assists... rebounding, steals, blocks, AND points, team two is a better team lol


You brought up the straight line aspect...and you got beaten down for it. You mindlessly bash Amercian cars for only being straight line performance orientated THEN try bringing in a import car as an example of how an Amercian made production vehicle isn't the best at going in a straight line?


http://blog.pbwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fail.jpg

[orangekeebler]

you guys love taking things out of context. the bugatti veyron was in answer to the assertion that the saleen S7 TT was the fastest production car in the world...it isn't. also, we've already beaten the point to death that anything can go fast in a str8 line. you're not paying for only str8 line performance when you buy an import such as a BMW or Audi, or even a Honda. you pay for build quality, quality materials, safety, reliability, comfort, handling, etc. if you want to talk str8 line performance, i could drop a Z06 motor in an Aveo and it would desimate all in a str8 line for "a fraction of the price," but it wouldn't be a performance value. it would be a POS that's fast in a str8 line.

so the c6 z06 cant handle? or the ford gt? or shelby gt500? or saleen s7? or viper?

please..you need to research domestic sports cars before spouting off anymore bullshit.

[Boost_inthebox]

and now that we are throwing any little excuse into the mix

the base cost of an S7 TT is 585,000. The demand for the veyron has driven it up to over 1.5 million. A third of the cost? I'll take one, please.

The thing with the veyron is, people who have no true appreciation for automobiles will buy them because of their status.

People who buy the S7, do so for a purpose.

[orangekeebler]

and now that we are throwing any little excuse into the mix

the base cost of an S7 TT is 585,000. The demand for the veyron has driven it up to over 1.5 million. A third of the cost? I'll take one, please.

The thing with the veyron is, people who have no true appreciation for automobiles will buy them because of their status.

People who buy the S7, do so for a purpose.

I've seen 1 s7 in person...and it was only for a very, very, very short time. By the time i noticed what was flying by me on the highway, I didn't even see its tailights anymore.