For the subaru crowd.

[Gotboost98]

Also anyone else that cares to see it. Id like to see the test added with volvo's awd, audi's and fords new awd layout.

Discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE

[Vietdragone4eva]

should i say that i know then they do about all wheel drive? no silly thats what other people do haha, of course i will be right according to them though


i would like to see them put their cars all wheel drive vs the new gtr

[z24sport]

3:00 into the video...Honda has some 'splainin to do.

Just finished it. Toyota suprised me...oh well. Now I can show this video to the lady and make her change her mind about getting a Toyota and going with a Subaru instead.

[NHB_DC5R]

makes me wish i had a suby for the damn ohio winters

[fatcircles]

Forester FTW

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k92/joscolem/9-27-07%20Full%20Moon/DSC_0413copy.jpg

[gordykeefers]

i question the scientific nature of this video. Clearly, the subaru can do things none of the others can do. That's beyond question. Props to Subaru for sure.

you know, i was planning on going through the shortcomings of this test, but really it doesn't matter. Subaru behaved how i would expect an AWD car to behave, and the others really didn't.

[fatcircles]

Just finished watching the entire thing :)

[sLoPoKe7thGen]

makes me wish i had a suby for the damn ohio winters

Nice vid. So pulling the car with just one wheel that has enough traction is due to it's symmetrical layout. But don't you think power of the legacy helps too over the power from the VW and maybe also the weight difference?

[sLoPoKe7thGen]

i question the scientific nature of this video. Clearly, the subaru can do things none of the others can do. That's beyond question. Props to Subaru for sure.

you know, i was planning on going through the shortcomings of this test, but really it doesn't matter. Subaru behaved how i would expect an AWD car to behave, and the others really didn't.

Haha, +1

[Machina]

There was one of these a while ago but it used cars about 2 or 3 years older. Nonetheless it was a Subaru video that was made to show the vehicles' AWD systems in action.

[Machina]

Nice vid. So pulling the car with just one wheel that has enough traction is due to it's symmetrical layout. But don't you think power of the legacy helps too over the power from the VW and maybe also the weight difference?

That's pretty much the idea in two respects. Having more power total means that even if the cars' differentials send the same percent of power to a certain wheel, then the car with more power is going to be more likely to pull itself up the hill. If all of the cars could only send a max of 40% of its power to the front, but they have 100 ft/lbs of torque, 200 ft/lbs of torque, and 500 ft/lbs of torque, the one producing more torque is going to pull itself up, same goes for the vehicles weighing less. But I think what the video might mean to demonstrate is that the Subaru drivetrain is made to transfer a greater percent of torque to the slipping wheels. Honda prefers to make their cars FWD and sends only a small amount of the total power to the rear when it's needed. This keeps their cars more fuel efficient. But my friend's Subaru is sending a percentage to the rear that's probably more like 60% when it needs it, as opposed to maybe 20%. But yes, nonetheless, it doesn't matter what percentage of power is being sent to the rear if the real issue is going up hill, which would require a stone figure, like 252 ft/lbs of torque total to drag a car uphill. If the CRV had more power, it would've made it up, same goes for the Toyota and the Audi. They switched power to their other wheels, just not enough to move them up such a steep incline. If they were on a flat surface, however, they would all be moving forward.

Edit: The other way for the Honda, Toyota, and Audi to make it up the incline would be if their drivetrains sent a greater percentage of power to the rear (the point of the video). But even if they sent the same percent of power to the slipping wheels, they wouldn't have the power to make it up.

One area I question: Since the Honda is FWD-based, I can't help but feel that if they performed the 1-front-wheel-is-the-only-wheel-with-traction test on it, it would've made it up, since the front wheels are getting such a higher percent of power. That does show some bias, but the video's meant to demonstrate how much more versatile the Subaru drivetrain is- which I think the video accomplishes.

[W1lson]

uhh..my car would just spin in circles then slide off a cliff

RWD crew holla

[drumnatural]

European STI is ftw

[Game]

Subaru definitely owns the AWD, but they'll still never get enough people across to sway them from the Honda/Toyota crowd.

[gordykeefers]

if their cars didn't look like shit i'd definitely consider the switch. And I love hondas.

[Machina]

Too bad SH-AWD is so heavy and expensive... :(

[INNOVA]

Yep Subaru owns... It's as simple as that.

[drumnatural]

Honda is slowly stepping up there game with the RDX and new RL AWD system.

So that gives some hope.

But the chances of getting an AWD Turbo coupe from the factory is probably next to impossible.

If they decide to do that for another country I will egg the nearest honda/acura dealership in defiance.

[gordykeefers]

a note about the honda they tested - that is NOT the SH-AWD system, it's their older system. I'm no expert on the difference, but i know SH-AWD is more advanced. perhaps that would fair better?

[Game]

a note about the honda they tested - that is NOT the SH-AWD system, it's their older system. I'm no expert on the difference, but i know SH-AWD is more advanced. perhaps that would fair better?

Most likely, but then what fun would that be for Subaru? :laughing:

[sLoPoKe7thGen]

uhh..my car would just spin in circles then slide off a cliff

RWD crew holla

:laughing:

[Machina]

a note about the honda they tested - that is NOT the SH-AWD system, it's their older system. I'm no expert on the difference, but i know SH-AWD is more advanced. perhaps that would fair better?

SH-AWD isn't like your usual "Oh, this wheel is slipping, take power away from it and send it elsewhere!" system. Instead, it's more like "The wheel is turning and power is going to the wheels, so before any wheels even begin to slip, let's distribute power accordingly." In other words, it is (I hate using these terms) pro-active, instead of reactive. It's a completely different system all together.

It's really a brilliant system. Too bad Honda (and buyers) is too cheap to put it on more cars...


Video:
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/

[aftershock141]

Watched it way earlier when you sent it to me on AIM.

Good vid +rep!

edit: I'm on rep lockdown lol:(.

[gordykeefers]

SH-AWD isn't like your usual "Oh, this wheel is slipping, take power away from it and send it elsewhere!" system. Instead, it's more like "The wheel is turning and power is going to the wheels, so before any wheels even begin to slip, let's distribute power accordingly." In other words, it is (I hate using these terms) pro-active, instead of reactive. It's a completely different system all together.

It's really a brilliant system. Too bad Honda (and buyers) is too cheap to put it on more cars...


Video:
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/

i see. My understanding is that the system is more for putting down maximum power in good conditions, rather than for inclement conditions and surfaces. I guess that makes sense.

[Machina]

They basically said "Hey, we can make AWD perform like RWD with an LSD." ...Why Honda didn't just design a damn RWD vehicle in the first place, I don't know. :deadhorse

[Gotboost98]

That's pretty much the idea in two respects. Having more power total means that even if the cars' differentials send the same percent of power to a certain wheel, then the car with more power is going to be more likely to pull itself up the hill. If all of the cars could only send a max of 40% of its power to the front, but they have 100 ft/lbs of torque, 200 ft/lbs of torque, and 500 ft/lbs of torque, the one producing more torque is going to pull itself up, same goes for the vehicles weighing less. But I think what the video might mean to demonstrate is that the Subaru drivetrain is made to transfer a greater percent of torque to the slipping wheels. Honda prefers to make their cars FWD and sends only a small amount of the total power to the rear when it's needed. This keeps their cars more fuel efficient. But my friend's Subaru is sending a percentage to the rear that's probably more like 60% when it needs it, as opposed to maybe 20%. But yes, nonetheless, it doesn't matter what percentage of power is being sent to the rear if the real issue is going up hill, which would require a stone figure, like 252 ft/lbs of torque total to drag a car uphill. If the CRV had more power, it would've made it up, same goes for the Toyota and the Audi. They switched power to their other wheels, just not enough to move them up such a steep incline. If they were on a flat surface, however, they would all be moving forward.

Edit: The other way for the Honda, Toyota, and Audi to make it up the incline would be if their drivetrains sent a greater percentage of power to the rear (the point of the video). But even if they sent the same percent of power to the slipping wheels, they wouldn't have the power to make it up.

One area I question: Since the Honda is FWD-based, I can't help but feel that if they performed the 1-front-wheel-is-the-only-wheel-with-traction test on it, it would've made it up, since the front wheels are getting such a higher percent of power. That does show some bias, but the video's meant to demonstrate how much more versatile the Subaru drivetrain is- which I think the video accomplishes.
great points. It was just to show the differences in everyones awd. Like I had said id have liked to see audi, volvos and fords new awd.
uhh..my car would just spin in circles then slide off a cliff

RWD crew holla
+5 when i can :rotfl:
Honda is slowly stepping up there game with the RDX and new RL AWD system.

So that gives some hope.

But the chances of getting an AWD Turbo coupe from the factory is probably next to impossible.

If they decide to do that for another country I will egg the nearest honda/acura dealership in defiance.
:rotfl: +5 when I can

[Gotboost98]

I wasn't trying to say omgzors subaru> all by posting this video, an I dont think anyone got that impression I just wanted to state it in case anyone thought other wise:) I just wanted to get a good discussion going in this section we dont get enough of them usually.

It was also nice to see other peoples claims put to the test. Like saying it could pull its self with just one wheel.........It couldnt.

[Clish]

wasn't this the video where people said they showed to Subaru Employees as a training course before they went out to sell their cars?

[Kibwe Walker]

I wasn't trying to say omgzors subaru> all by posting this video, an I dont think anyone got that impression I just wanted to state it in case anyone thought other wise:) I just wanted to get a good discussion going in this section we dont get enough of them usually.

It was also nice to see other peoples claims put to the test. Like saying it could pull its self with just one wheel.........It couldnt.
Nice.

It would be nice to see a mitsu VCU based AWD system in that test though.

Simple yet efficient because atleast on my car it is completely slipped based (no sensors or computor involvement). If one wheel looses traction that heats up the fluid in the VCU and causes it to lock mechanically sending the power for that slipping wheel to the other or others that have traction.

The only thing I could see is the torque steer, atleast on my car (no idea about AWD evos/DSMs or 4WD monteros and trucks) is the torque steer. At low speeds you could never get it to happen but on a HARD launch with good traction I can get my car to torque steer. Don't see it happening on that test though. Only claim to fame is I did make it up a icy hill with no problem a few years back and on 3si members were driving by people stuck on the side of the road just to catch the expression on their faces as they rolled by in the sports car and they were stuck in SUV's and trucks.

The later systems in the EVO's are similiar but better than the system in the 3s so go figure. Think it was a year or two ago before the evo IX was released where they were driving them around in the snow (cones, slalom style), to show some new added feature in the AWD system.

[big18g]

Also anyone else that cares to see it. Id like to see the test added with volvo's awd, audi's and fords new awd layout.

Discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE

very interesting......i guess i better go get a subaru then.....wait, i got two:laughing:

[Phrost]

They didn't demonstrate Audi because Subaru was scared :chuck:

This looks like an independent made video, but every car vid like this is always biased toward one brand...

[fatcircles]

They didn't demonstrate Audi because Subaru was scared :chuck:

This looks like an independent made video, but every car vid like this is always biased toward one brand...

or the audi broke down on the way to the test b/c of electrical problems etc :D

[05Aucrarsx]

:sleep:




:coffee:

[JPSlick]

subie!!!!

There are other videos that prove Subie AWD > all

[big18g]

They didn't demonstrate Audi because Subaru was scared :chuck:

This looks like an independent made video, but every car vid like this is always biased toward one brand...

or the audi broke down on the way to the test b/c of electrical problems etc :D

:rotfl:

[Gotboost98]

or the audi broke down on the way to the test b/c of electrical problems etc :D

QFT

[Supraru]

Sweet vid. Subaru is the king of awd. :weeeeeeeeee: I would love to find out if subaru or audi is better. A bunch of us had this discussion one night at a garage night at my buddies house (drinking beers and talking cars). There was some subie guys and some audi guys. None of us could really come up with an idea on who's is better. Mostly lack of information on hand at the time and being drunk. That being said you can still look up and learn how the drivetrains work but you can never really find out till you actually test them. It's supposed to snow here tonight so maybe I'll drive my buddies S4 just to see which one feels better.

[MichaelJr1186]

no bmw?

[MichaelJr1186]

oh..doesn't toyo owns most of suby now ?

[Supraru]

oh..doesn't toyo owns most of suby now ?

I wouldn't say most. I'd say a small portion. Just as much as Gm did at one point till they left.

[Supraru]

no bmw?

I haven't heard great things about bmw's awd. I talked to a couple people who had them and they said they were just as horrible in the snow as their rwd bmw's were in the snow.

[Gotboost98]

Sweet vid. Subaru is the king of awd. :weeeeeeeeee: I would love to find out if subaru or audi is better. A bunch of us had this discussion one night at a garage night at my buddies house (drinking beers and talking cars). There was some subie guys and some audi guys. None of us could really come up with an idea on who's is better. Mostly lack of information on hand at the time and being drunk. That being said you can still look up and learn how the drivetrains work but you can never really find out till you actually test them. It's supposed to snow here tonight so maybe I'll drive my buddies S4 just to see which one feels better.

I wouldnt say king because of the evos awd:) But its probably fighting for best.

[fatcircles]

I wouldnt say king because of the evos awd:) But its probably fighting for best.

I think the overall package over 100k miles Subaru wins, but only in that specific competition

[Gotboost98]

I think the overall package over 100k miles Subaru wins, but only in that specific competition

I can agree with that. I think for rally and performance though mitsu awd>


Its snowing here we just got 3-4inchs from yesterday night/morning. Supposed to have 10inchs by tomorrow morning so they say. If it doesn't pick up its not happening

[MichaelJr1186]

since the vid is from subaru of dallas dealership..it's hard to believe. that's all i'm saying.

[fatcircles]

since the vid is from subaru of dallas dealership..it's hard to believe. that's all i'm saying.

SoD is actually one of the best dealerships out there, surprisingly.

But the info provided in the video is pretty good if you watch the whole thing and actually pay attention to what they are doing.

And cmon, do you really think the honda crv has better awd than a subaru?

[BOOM SHAKALAKA]

damn Honda.

i want a Subaru :(

[Brianstype-s]

interesting video

[Game]

damn Honda.

i want a Subaru :(

lol I'm seeing alot of your posts with the same thing.

Why not trade your Honda in for one?

[Hump]

I haven't heard great things about bmw's awd. I talked to a couple people who had them and they said they were just as horrible in the snow as their rwd bmw's were in the snow.

Oh come on now.

I have driven 330xi's and 325xi's along with countless standard rwd BMW's and trust me, there is a difference in the snow. I mean, it isnt a great awd system, but cmon who really says that?

[Phrost]

or the audi broke down on the way to the test b/c of electrical problems etc :D

:laughing: the electrical problems in OLDER Audi's never prevented them from driving. They only resulted in annoying problems.


no bmw?

BMW's all wheel drive sucks. All the e30, e36 and other generations "xi" models did was apply the brakes, wear out your brakes extremely fast, and suck. e90s and newer generations are getting better though, but it still can't compete with Subaru/Audi/Mitsubishi.

[Hump]

:laughing: the electrical problems in OLDER Audi's never prevented them from driving. They only resulted in annoying problems.




BMW's all wheel drive sucks. All the e30, e36 and other generations "xi" models did was apply the brakes, wear out your brakes extremely fast, and suck. e90s and newer generations are getting better though, but it still can't compete with Subaru/Audi/Mitsubishi.

There was no e36 Xi model BMW.

And electrical problems have always plagued Audi, not just the older ones.

[IhazVTek]

mwehh i still love evos more hehe

[Supraru]

I wouldnt say king because of the evos awd:) But its probably fighting for best.

I would. The Evo's awd system is built from a fwd engine. Subaru is the only company to take their engine and make a true awd system. I really don't know what other company makes a symmetrical awd system. Don't get me wrong there's a lot of technology into the Evo's but I have a feeling it would do some of the same things as the other asymmetrical cars did. Anyone can throw a bunch of technology into their shit but the simplicity remains that subaru did it right from the beginning. Everyone else starts from the wrong layout.

[Supraru]

Oh come on now.

I have driven 330xi's and 325xi's along with countless standard rwd BMW's and trust me, there is a difference in the snow. I mean, it isnt a great awd system, but cmon who really says that?

I'm sure they were better then the rwd bmw's in the snow. But the fact remains that they aren't that great in the snow.

Do I smell a bmw fanboy? :love: :rotfl:

[Hump]

I'm sure they were better then the rwd bmw's in the snow. But the fact remains that they aren't that great in the snow.

Do I smell a bmw fanboy? :love: :rotfl:

Because I defend BMW when someone says that the awd model does no better in the snow than a rwd model? :rolleyes:


But yes, I am a BMW fanboy, just as you are a subaru fanboy. Nothing wrong with it.

[Supraru]

Because I defend BMW when someone says that the awd model does no better in the snow than a rwd model? :rolleyes:


But yes, I am a BMW fanboy, just as you are a subaru fanboy. Nothing wrong with it.

I never said there was nothing wrong with it. At least you're not an Rsx fanboy. :thumbsup: I've never driven an xi in the snow but like I've said I've heard it from owners who've owned many bmw's. Like I said though I'm sure it wasn't as bad but I'm sure it isn't that great either. Just another way they can sell cars.

[Hump]

They are alright in the snow, but it isnt all that great of an awd system like others have said.

Sales tool for sure, and damn how well did it work!

[?uestion]

nice ad for subaru

[fatcircles]

nice ad for subaru

lulz

[MichaelJr1186]

I haven't heard great things about bmw's awd. I talked to a couple people who had them and they said they were just as horrible in the snow as their rwd bmw's were in the snow.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HcaD7XKafM0 X5 looks pretty good in snow

[marroquin57]

still waiting to see what the audi people have to say about all this

[Supraru]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HcaD7XKafM0 X5 looks pretty good in snow

Looks good key term. I think we'd all agree the subie would rip it a new asshole on the snow.

[Supraru]

still waiting to see what the audi people have to say about all this

I'm curious too. I was talking to my buddy tonight and he thought that the 4motion was pretty much the same as the quattro but he wasn't completely sure. But one thing we did come up with was it all depends on what you need out of the awd system. They are not all created equal. As fas as keeping traction seems like this video has a pretty good test.

[Phrost]

4motion (what that VW Passat uses, as well as the VW R32, Audi TT, and Audi A3) is not a full time AWD system. It uses a "Haldex" differential, which is electronically controlled. So basically, it is front wheel drive with an edl until it breaks traction (about 1/4 wheel turn) then the rear wheels kick in. Since it is electronically controlled it is extremely fast, but can't transfer as much power around and it isn't full time. Less drivetrain loss during every day driving though. People buy Haldex controllers to get more power to the wheels, but the reason it comes stock front biased is because it keeps it more neutral/understeer biased to drive easier.

Quattro (conventional, all the older Audis, A4, A6, A8s) use a "Torsen" differential which is full time (like Subaru's) and all mechanical. Everyone likes Torsen over Haldex, and so do I as I have owned a TT and an A4. Torsen is full time, can transfer more power around to each wheel, but can't quite do it as quickly as the Haldex system.

A better comparison of AWD systems would be a Subaru WRX, Audi A4, and Mitsu Evo IMO.

But don't let this "roller" test throw you guys off. All of the rear tires are still getting traction, and you're never really going to be climbing steep hills with ice everywhere like this. In rain/snow, the rear tires will still be spinning and act how you want it to.

[Supraru]

4motion (what that VW Passat uses, as well as the VW R32, Audi TT, and Audi A3) is not a full time AWD system. It uses a "Haldex" differential, which is electronically controlled. So basically, it is front wheel drive with an edl until it breaks traction (about 1/4 wheel turn) then the rear wheels kick in. Since it is electronically controlled it is extremely fast, but can't transfer as much power around and it isn't full time. Less drivetrain loss during every day driving though. People buy Haldex controllers to get more power to the wheels, but the reason it comes stock front biased is because it keeps it more neutral/understeer biased to drive easier.

Quattro (conventional, all the older Audis, A4, A6, A8s) use a "Torsen" differential which is full time (like Subaru's) and all mechanical. Everyone likes Torsen over Haldex, and so do I as I have owned a TT and an A4. Torsen is full time, can transfer more power around to each wheel, but can't quite do it as quickly as the Haldex system.

A better comparison of AWD systems would be a Subaru WRX, Audi A4, and Mitsu Evo IMO.

But don't let this "roller" test throw you guys off. All of the rear tires are still getting traction, and you're never really going to be climbing steep hills with ice everywhere like this. In rain/snow, the rear tires will still be spinning and act how you want it to.

Well yeah you're not going to be going up a hill like that in a complete no traction senerio but it does show you how well those wheels that are getting the traction actually help you out.

[Phrost]

Oh I know. I was just reminding that those rear wheels really are getting power, but the "test" showed which system was best. Yes Subaru's system is better than what they compared it to, but in the real world, one won't really notice the different much at all. If you're going around an icy corner, every one of those vehicles would apply power to make the rear wheels spin, but Subaru's system is better at it and is able to give more power to the quadrant that needs it.

[Supraru]

Oh I know. I was just reminding that those rear wheels really are getting power, but the "test" showed which system was best. Yes Subaru's system is better than what they compared it to, but in the real world, one won't really notice the different much at all. If you're going around an icy corner, every one of those vehicles would apply power to make the rear wheels spin, but Subaru's system is better at it and is able to give more power to the quadrant that needs it.

Correct. Here's me on ice with some snow on top. I was running 3 winter old blizzak ws-50's. Hit more ice at the end and nothing I could do. luckily I had my suspension jacked up so there was no damage...it was just funny. :laughing:

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ca9c1786-7bdf-4579-913a-98c300c07fb7.htm

[Phrost]

haha yeah, it looks like you're on no-season tires or else bald winters by how far you slide when you kick it sideways. I want to drive a Subi with snow tires to compare to my A4, but nobody around me owns one...

and like I said before, I think someone needs to 'compare' Subaru, Audi, and Mitsubishi's AWD systems. Those three seem to be the no shit superior systems and they all work similar. Dooo ittt

[Zissou]

wow, i would always brag that i could take my old subie wagon where most SUV's couldnt go; guess this helps validate that claim.

[cheechxu]

SH-AWD isn't like your usual "Oh, this wheel is slipping, take power away from it and send it elsewhere!" system. Instead, it's more like "The wheel is turning and power is going to the wheels, so before any wheels even begin to slip, let's distribute power accordingly." In other words, it is (I hate using these terms) pro-active, instead of reactive. It's a completely different system all together.

It's really a brilliant system. Too bad Honda (and buyers) is too cheap to put it on more cars...


Video:
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/

that was EPIC, Machina

thanks for the explanation

[Phrost]

wow, i would always brag that i could take my old subie wagon where most SUV's couldnt go; guess this helps validate that claim.

Trucks and SUV's are STUPID. 4x4 is the worst system ever. It's like taking a stupid open differential in an RSX and putting one in the front and rear lol. Many newer trucks have better LSD and EDL options for their sport packages, but 4x4 makes me laugh out loud. But no matter what you have, it's all in your tires. That's why tons of trucks are always in the ditch, because they think 4x4 will get them through anything and they forget they have shitty oem no-season tires that can't stop worth shit.


and yeah, leave it to Honda to call it "super handling AWD" :mam: Yes, this torque-vectoring system is awesome, but it's going on SUV's and junk before the high performance cars. And every other GOOD car manufacture with GOOD AWD systems are not far behind at all. I don't really follow too much but I know Audi has the technology down but it's not in their cars yet I guess.

[Gotboost98]

4x4 makes me LULZ too.

[DOHCtor]

skyline gtr is also symmetrical awd. i have no problem getting through iced road and thick snow at the local mountains with my asymmetrical awd evo.

[Gotboost98]

skyline gtr is also symmetrical awd. i have no problem getting through iced road and thick snow at the local mountains with my asymmetrical awd evo.

:beerchug:

[MyCarGoesVroom]

I'm sorry but an Evo vs Subaru comparison is apples to oranges. They use two completely different philosophies to attain their goals. The Subarus transfer power from front to back while the Evo does not do this at all. The ACD unit on the Evo releases and grabs the clutch packs in the unit to vary the amount of force the front and rear wheels "grab" as opposed to power transfers.

IMHO, the best AWD out there for performance is the ATTESA system in the GT-Rs and for snow? The Evos and Subarus are both very very capable systems in their own respects.

BMW's AWD technology isn't worth mentioning and the VW/Audi system, I'm not a real big fan of. I like full-time AWD instead of the "oh crap something's wrong we need to think now!" approach. The SH-AWD has not proven itself to be able to handle significant amounts of power increases yet. It is a sweet system but is unproven in terms of performance.

P.S. Ben... congrats on 11s. Want to meet me halfway in Colorado for a friendly match?

[DOHCtor]

I'm sorry but an Evo vs Subaru comparison is apples to oranges. They use two completely different philosophies to attain their goals. The Subarus transfer power from front to back while the Evo does not do this at all. The ACD unit on the Evo releases and grabs the clutch packs in the unit to vary the amount of force the front and rear wheels "grab" as opposed to power transfers.

IMHO, the best AWD out there for performance is the ATTESA system in the GT-Rs and for snow? The Evos and Subarus are both very very capable systems in their own respects.

BMW's AWD technology isn't worth mentioning and the VW/Audi system, I'm not a real big fan of. I like full-time AWD instead of the "oh crap something's wrong we need to think now!" approach. The SH-AWD has not proven itself to be able to handle significant amounts of power increases yet. It is a sweet system but is unproven in terms of performance.

P.S. Ben... congrats on 11s. Want to meet me halfway in Colorado for a friendly match?

same here

[MyCarGoesVroom]

same here

I hear you joined the dark side. How you liking it so far?

[DOHCtor]

I hear you joined the dark side. How you liking it so far?

Really enjoying it. Had the car for a little over 7 months and already racked up over 22k miles on it and tracked the damn thing 5 times already haha. Click the link in my sig if you wanna see 1 lap at the track in the near stock evo.

[Kibwe Walker]

skyline gtr is also symmetrical awd. i have no problem getting through iced road and thick snow at the local mountains with my asymmetrical awd evo.
I don't have any problems either.

Simple, no sensors, and completely slip based in a full time AWD setup. One or more wheel looses traction and that slippage heats up the VCU and sends the power from that wheel or wheels to the wheels that do have traction. Now that I think about it, there wouldn't even be any torque steer provided that one of the front wheels have traction.

There would only be torque steer of the rear wheels had zero traction and only the FW's had traction and you were launching or something. At low I am on ice speeds it will never happen.

[MyCarGoesVroom]

Really enjoying it. Had the car for a little over 7 months and already racked up over 22k miles on it and tracked the damn thing 5 times already haha. Click the link in my sig if you wanna see 1 lap at the track in the near stock evo.

Glad to hear it! The vid looks good; can't wait to trailer my Evo + race goodies down to So Cali next summer to tear up the tracks. Can't believe it's already going on 2 years since I've bought mine.. :(

[Phrost]

and the VW/Audi system, I'm not a real big fan of. I like full-time AWD instead of the "oh crap something's wrong we need to think now!" approach.

It depends, both have their advantages. But don't group VW and Audi all wheel drive systems together; their transverse engines get the Haldex systems, which is not full time AWD but 1/4 wheel turn close. VW Passat and R32 get Haldex, and Audi's A3 and TT get Haldex because they get transversely mounted engines since they're built on more of a VW platform for whatever stupid reason that is. Every other Audi (as well as older ones dating back to the 80s) got longitudinal mounted engines with full time Torsen Quattro.

[marroquin57]

Did we all forget about mercedes' 4matic?

[Supraru]

haha yeah, it looks like you're on no-season tires or else bald winters by how far you slide when you kick it sideways. I want to drive a Subi with snow tires to compare to my A4, but nobody around me owns one...

and like I said before, I think someone needs to 'compare' Subaru, Audi, and Mitsubishi's AWD systems. Those three seem to be the no shit superior systems and they all work similar. Dooo ittt

Haha, yeah I almost looped it. It was just to icy under the snow to have any real fun.

No ice with blizzak revo1's. There was far more traction. If I would have shifted into second gear on the slides I would loose revs and and stall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_btgCoorT0A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_btgCoorT0A

[MyCarGoesVroom]

It depends, both have their advantages. But don't group VW and Audi all wheel drive systems together; their transverse engines get the Haldex systems, which is not full time AWD but 1/4 wheel turn close. VW Passat and R32 get Haldex, and Audi's A3 and TT get Haldex because they get transversely mounted engines since they're built on more of a VW platform for whatever stupid reason that is. Every other Audi (as well as older ones dating back to the 80s) got longitudinal mounted engines with full time Torsen Quattro.

Spoke with an Audi master tech friend of mine that confirmed the same. Good info. :thumbsup:

Did we all forget about mercedes' 4matic?

Mercedes 4matic is not standard affair on high performance Mercedes vehicles. The Subaru, Evo, VW/Audi, Volvo, and Nissan systems are systems that exist on their respective high performance models. I, personally, am just comparing high performance AWD systems. :chuck:

[Phrost]

Spoke with an Audi master tech friend of mine that confirmed the same. Good info. :thumbsup:

Dude, I am a master tech of every car brand. This is crsx, right? :giggitygiggity:

[Phrost]

No ice with blizzak revo1's. There was far more traction. If I would have shifted into second gear on the slides I would loose revs and and stall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_btgCoorT0A

haha sweet, that looks much better. It all depends on your specific transmission... in my Audi, I like to floor it in 1st to kick it out, then hold it really low in 2nd through whatever slide I want to do. I get max torque at 1,800rpm so it's pretty easy.

I remember driving my friends WRX before he wrapped it around a tree, and that thing would bog and go nowhere at 2,000rpm or below. Your powerband starts pretty damn high!

[Gotboost98]

haha sweet, that looks much better. It all depends on your specific transmission... in my Audi, I like to floor it in 1st to kick it out, then hold it really low in 2nd through whatever slide I want to do. I get max torque at 1,800rpm so it's pretty easy.

I remember driving my friends WRX before he wrapped it around a tree, and that thing would bog and go nowhere at 2,000rpm or below. Your powerband starts pretty damn high!

mine kicks sideways at 1900-2100 rpms............in snow. 1-4th are useless in snow unless I shift at 1900. This is coming from a high 11 second wrx.

[aftershock141]

mine kicks sideways at 1900-2100 rpms............in snow. 1-4th are useless in snow unless I shift at 1900. This is coming from a high 11 second wrx.

More like low 13's:p. J/k haha.

[Gotboost98]

More like low 13's:p. J/k haha.

:noes:

[MyCarGoesVroom]

Dude, I am a master tech of every car brand. This is crsx, right? :giggitygiggity:

True indeed. This would be make the OMGITZTHEGODOFALLCARS then. :chuck:

mine kicks sideways at 1900-2100 rpms............in snow. 1-4th are useless in snow unless I shift at 1900. This is coming from a high 11 second wrx.

11 second WRX? 11 second for you to bust a nut in the backseat by yourself? Where is this said 11 seconds from?

[Phatzilla18]

Scoobie awd ftw

[Gotboost98]

True indeed. This would be make the OMGITZTHEGODOFALLCARS then. :chuck:



11 second WRX? 11 second for you to bust a nut in the backseat by yourself? Where is this said 11 seconds from?

the motor:p

[Kibwe Walker]

Did we all forget about mercedes' 4matic?
No its a option, IIRC only the ML and G class are full time AWD vehicles, the rest of the larger cars that get 4matic as a option (4xx and 5xx level)and I don't think they run 4 matics on any of the AMG's.

If they did a e55 or or any of the TT v12's (600's or 65's) would be absolute tits in a 4 matic. I think the are worried about the hp and torque breaking something ;) .

[MyCarGoesVroom]

the motor:p

The motor takes 11 seconds to start? You've got a big problem buddy.

[Gotboost98]

The motor takes 11 seconds to start? You've got a big problem buddy.

:rotfl:

[Machina]

The motor takes 11 seconds to start? You've got a big problem buddy.

It's a boxer engine. First it's got to make weight, then take some pictures, then start the trash talking. Next it's got to train some, then allow for some publicity, and after that you can watch it go on PayPerView.

[Hump]

haha sweet, that looks much better. It all depends on your specific transmission... in my Audi, I like to floor it in 1st to kick it out, then hold it really low in 2nd through whatever slide I want to do. I get max torque at 1,800rpm so it's pretty easy.

I remember driving my friends WRX before he wrapped it around a tree, and that thing would bog and go nowhere at 2,000rpm or below. Your powerband starts pretty damn high!

Do you have the 3.2 or 1.8t? I have a red 01 TT 220hp quattro and like it a lot.

[sifrx]

Honda is slowly stepping up there game with the RDX and new RL AWD system.

So that gives some hope.

But the chances of getting an AWD Turbo coupe from the factory is probably next to impossible.

If they decide to do that for another country I will egg the nearest honda/acura dealership in defiance.

I heard from an Acura tech that the new 08 09 tsx models might be sporting that idea.

[ScoobyMadness]

Yep Subaru owns... It's as simple as that.

:thumbsup:

[MyCarGoesVroom]

:rotfl:

Thought you might like it. To fix the issue, take our the turbo. :D

It's a boxer engine. First it's got to make weight, then take some pictures, then start the trash talking. Next it's got to train some, then allow for some publicity, and after that you can watch it go on PayPerView.

Screw that, I'm not paying $60 to watch him start his motor. Boxer motor ftl! :p

I heard from an Acura tech that the new 08 09 tsx models might be sporting that idea.

Supposedly Acura is going to a full SH-AWD lineup in the very near future. I really hope they do, I'll probably pick up a TL-S as a DD.

[MyCarGoesVroom]

:rotfl:

BTW, I like my new sig. kthxbai

[Phrost]

Do you have the 3.2 or 1.8t? I have a red 01 TT 220hp quattro and like it a lot.

I had the 220hp 1.8t Quattro TT, but I sold it for a 2.0t A4. I just did a huge part-out of all my mods last month on VWVortex, you missed it :) If you need any help or advice for anything with it feel free to let me know

[Gotboost98]

BTW, I like my new sig. kthxbai

bs you you do your number is 22

[DOHCtor]

shit, i should be rsx vs asshole crew member #-1. that shit goes before 0 hahahha.

[Gotboost98]

shit, i should be rsx vs asshole crew member #-1. that shit goes before 0 hahahha.

you assholes lol.

[MyCarGoesVroom]

bs you you do your number is 22

BS I actually don't like it, I LOVE it. I r t3h > b3n.

shit, i should be rsx vs asshole crew member #-1. that shit goes before 0 hahahha.

The 0 is much better. Divide this universe by 0 and it seizes to exist. I r the n3o?

[Gotboost98]

BS I actually don't like it, I LOVE it. I r t3h > b3n.



The 0 is much better. Divide this universe by 0 and it seizes to exist. I r the n3o?

:lawl: its good to have you back you obnoxious fuck

[MyCarGoesVroom]

:lawl: its good to have you back you obnoxious fuck

Obnoxious fuck? Whoa there son, you better take that back; lest I replace those bushings with mini donuts.

[Gotboost98]

Obnoxious fuck? Whoa there son, you better take that back; lest I replace those bushings with mini donuts.

:love:

[MyCarGoesVroom]

:love:

Doughnuts > driving a car.. fatass

[ScoobyMadness]

Who neg repped me?

[zeroryde]

Nice vid. So pulling the car with just one wheel that has enough traction is due to it's symmetrical layout. But don't you think power of the legacy helps too over the power from the VW and maybe also the weight difference?

woohoo, legacy ftw :P although I don't have vdc since I have a 5-speed manual

[ScoobyMadness]

woohoo, legacy ftw :P although I don't have vdc since I have a 5-speed manual

Are you on LegacyGT.com?

[zeroryde]

Are you on LegacyGT.com?

yes i am, with the same sn

[ScoobyMadness]

yes i am, with the same sn

That's weird, I never saw you on there.. My user name is "derffred"

I have a 2005 LGT.. with a few mods :)

[zeroryde]

That's weird, I never saw you on there.. My user name is "derffred"

I have a 2005 LGT.. with a few mods :)

ya I'm a new member, I haven't posted much since I just got the car

[SE3P]

uhh..my car would just spin in circles then slide off a cliff

RWD crew holla

:rotfl: +1.....

[18psi]

That's weird, I never saw you on there.. My user name is "derffred"

I have a 2005 LGT.. with a few mods :)

what mods...."few mods" could range anywhere from a 14 second car to a 11's car:mam: