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Desperate for help! Spent mega time, $$, energy still not running

3K views 74 replies 10 participants last post by  troye 
#1 ·
2005 Acura Type s
Rebuilt motor to stock
Car had three year old gas, mechanic didn't drain it.
Car was going into limp mode, codes were related to gas (do not remember specific codes) Told to drive 300 miles, change plugs, new Map and should be good.

Well it has been anything but good. I am going insane trying to figure this out. I have spent countless hours researching, trying, asking mechanic, friends, etc... As always..any help is GREATLY appreciated

Problem
0. Reset ECU (disconnect battery)
1. Car starts and idles high (1500-1700), if gassed it will bog at lower RPM's but then it revs fine 2. Second start, it idles better but still high, no bogging 3.Third time car idles almost normal for 3 seconds and then spikes to 11/1200 and then dies. You can rev it during this time and it runs great for the 3-4 seconds.
No engine codes
Spark plugs after running for only a few minutes are very rich.

Reset ECU and repeat.

Done so far
Replaced Cat (used)
Primary 02 (new)
Fuel Injectors professionally cleaned
MAP (new)
Spark plugs (new)
ECT (new)
Knock sensor (new)
Cleaned IACV
Drained all gas, vacuumed tank out


 
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#3 · (Edited)
Doesn't it? I forgot to add that the car has been down for three years! Three years ago someone replaced the head and it detonated 62 miles after.

So I am very anxious to get this running.

I have not done a full check on all vacuum lines but I do not see anything obvious.

I just realized I cleaned IACV with the sensor still on it:confused:, could that also be contributing?

Not sure about a throttle body being bad. It does open and close
 
#10 ·
Honestly sounds like a vacuum leak to me. If I were you that's the next thing I would look into since you have eliminated most other probable causes. Also have you checked the fuel pump to make sure you are getting the appropriate pressure to the rail? Just another thought since you said it drove fine for 300 miles...
 
#11 ·
Thanks Burton, how to I start checking for vacuum leak? I have not yet tested for the fuel pressure I was trying to figure this out exactly where to connect to to check. But my thought is due to the blackness of the plugs that it is getting enough fuel but this could be flawed thinking for sure!
 
#12 ·
No that is a good point about the plugs. I would focus on a vacuum leak. The main places I would check is the Intake Manifold to the head and TB to Intake Manifold. First thing I would do is make sure all the bolts are torqued to spec. If that doesn't work I'd confirm that your gaskets are sealing properly.
 
#13 ·
The thing is that if it was a vacuum leak, the plugs wouldn't be that color, they would be more of a white (the leak would cause it to run lean). And since he is getting good compression, it doesn't seem as it would be something with the block/head. So it gets me to think that it might be something fuel related, like injectors, or even something ecu related. BUT, I would start with the coil packs, that's probably your best bet. The black plug means either bad spark (you did replace the plugs), which leaves it to be coil packs, or something fuel related like injectors or ecu.
 
#15 ·
Your plugs are sooty because there isn't enough air in the mixture. Look at air delivery starting at the breather intake, filter, etc.
Then, if that's solid, I'd suspect a poorly secured intake manifold gasket. It might sound counter-intuitive but a leak there will provide less air to the mixture.
From lawn mowers to rockets, there are 3 principals of internal combustion; proper fuel mixture ignited at the right time under the appropriate compression.
I suspect the reason you aren't pulling codes is because it dies before the first diagnostic sweep.
 
#17 ·
A couple more ideas:
- Don't 2 sensors on the TB have *very* similar plugs? I believe it's MAP and TPS? (been a little while). What you're describing sounds like it could be the result of a bad MAP sensor (fuel mix looks WAY off). I know you said you replaced it, but I personally would start with double checking your throttle body connections to ensure the sensors are plugged in correctly. If reversed, the MAP sensor won't be reading properly and you'll run super rich
- Are your throttle cables too tight causing a high idle? Either the throttle cable or cruise control cable. This could be forcing the throttle body open and leading to a high idle
 
#19 ·
ClubRSX guys thanks for all of the help here, it is very much appreciated.
When I picked up the car it was a screamin' demon, as mentioned except for it going into limp mode.Once cleared it was scream ready again

Valve Lash - All valves "should" be adjusted and good to go.
All bolts are torqued to spec or better. Any bolts I have tried to remove from the build have been at spec or tighter.
IMG - New Hondata gasket, I will check all IM bolts
Similar plugs - They are not that similar actually, I checked that already
Fuel Injectors - should be fine as they were cleaned
Throttle body cables - they seem to be fine.
Plugs - yes three sets, and will do one more new set once this is figured out. Strangely enough the Laser Iridiums ($$$) do not work the best (still not conclusive)
MAP - I have another post with no answer about 2004 MAP same as 2005. Part #'s are different, but Kseries compatibility checker and my mechanic says they are the same. I was doubtful about it so I bought the 2005 MAP from Ebay (not oem) originally. Actually the car runs better with the 2004 MAP

I did discover the throttle body gasket was covering the "extra" hole in the throttle body. Mind you it has been this way even when it was 'screamin'

Here is what I will be doing next, should be done no later than Tuesday, all parts here or on their way
Fuel Pump and Strainer
OEM MAP
OEM Throttle body gasket
ACUITY Hall Effect TPS
IACV

IACV - should I be able to manually turn it with the sensor / motor still attached?
 
#21 · (Edited)
is this thing on a stock ecu? Does it have any mods, header, intake , exhaust, RBC, Kpro, Ktuner? If you have a scan tool with live data, connect it and look at the short term fuel trim (STFT) to see what it's doing. It should be no more than -10% to +10%. That may give you an idea of why the plugs are so sooty.
 
#22 ·
Hello Daje00

Thanks.
Stock ECU. I don't have an advanced scan tool with live data. One of my buddies also mentioned fuel trim.

Mods: Injen CAI

Kpro V1 (ripped off by another member here, sold it as V3) sitting in a box along with my RBC and required parts to connect

This issue might incentivize me to send it in for upgrade to V4
 
#25 ·
Here's an off the wall AF thought, but when all else fails....
Take off the intake plenum and look for obstructions like piece of rag, a gerbil, etc; inspect gasket surfaces, throttle body for proper response. Confirm unrestricted airflow. Complete troubleshooting, step by step. Using parts from the donor motor on a new short block can have unpredictable weirdness. Get all the mechanical squared away first, then dive into electronics.
Side note: I miss the good old days, when you just needed to worry about the price of coal. F-ing technology.
 
#26 ·
Check for restrictions in the exhaust too, cat internals coming loose or resonator internals coming loose.
 
#27 ·
Halfast Eddie - I will do a good inspection in the plenum

daje00- It was running super donkey at one point, then I replaced the CAT (with a used cat)
Is it okay to run with the cat disconnected? It will be loud but other then that is there any risk running without for a few minutes if needed?

I replace the secondary cat when it was warm / hot. There was a lot of smoke coming out of the hole, not sure if that is to be expected.

Exhaust - very rich, you can see the carbon spray on the ground.

Tonight I am replacing the fuel pump thanks to SPAZ DIY.
Tomorrow I hope to finish with IACV, TPS and MAP.
 
#29 · (Edited)
You can run it without the cat for a few mins, it won't hurt anything, just make sure you disconnect where the cat meets the header. Also the 02 sensor will not be reading any exhaust flow at that point so the AF ratio will be off. I honestly believe this is something simple, only a few things can cause you to be running that rich, either too much fuel or not enough air. The last thing it could be is leaking injectors but it would be weird for them all to be leaking at the same time. What 02 sensor did you buy? Are you sure it's the primary, whats the part number if you still have it?
 
#31 ·
Mineret301, this is encouraging! I did identify this week the throttle body gasket the mechanic used is incorrect. The one used is for the RBC, so it cuts off a bit of the bottom of the TB and then the extra hole as well.

I will find out today.
 
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