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Old 05-17-2017, 09:23 PM   #1
troye
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Desperate for help! Spent mega time, $$, energy still not running

2005 Acura Type s
Rebuilt motor to stock
Car had three year old gas, mechanic didn't drain it.
Car was going into limp mode, codes were related to gas (do not remember specific codes) Told to drive 300 miles, change plugs, new Map and should be good.

Well it has been anything but good. I am going insane trying to figure this out. I have spent countless hours researching, trying, asking mechanic, friends, etc... As always..any help is GREATLY appreciated

Problem
0. Reset ECU (disconnect battery)
1. Car starts and idles high (1500-1700), if gassed it will bog at lower RPM's but then it revs fine 2. Second start, it idles better but still high, no bogging 3.Third time car idles almost normal for 3 seconds and then spikes to 11/1200 and then dies. You can rev it during this time and it runs great for the 3-4 seconds.
No engine codes
Spark plugs after running for only a few minutes are very rich.

Reset ECU and repeat.

Done so far
Replaced Cat (used)
Primary 02 (new)
Fuel Injectors professionally cleaned
MAP (new)
Spark plugs (new)
ECT (new)
Knock sensor (new)
Cleaned IACV
Drained all gas, vacuumed tank out


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Old 05-17-2017, 10:14 PM   #2
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That sucks man, have you checked for vacuum leaks? That could be your cause, even a bad throttle body, or a bad TPS (throttle position sensor).
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:06 PM   #3
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Doesn't it? I forgot to add that the car has been down for three years! Three years ago someone replaced the head and it detonated 62 miles after.

So I am very anxious to get this running.

I have not done a full check on all vacuum lines but I do not see anything obvious.

I just realized I cleaned IACV with the sensor still on it, could that also be contributing?

Not sure about a throttle body being bad. It does open and close

Last edited by troye; 05-17-2017 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:19 PM   #4
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Could be, but
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:21 PM   #5
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*** Could be, but I would check compression since you did say that the head detonated! Have you had that checked?
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:23 PM   #6
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And I doubt cleaning the IACV with the sensor on it could be contributing to your problem. Also have you maybe tried coil packs?
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:54 PM   #7
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Compression is GREAT.

This is a fresh engine with 300 miles on it.
Detonated head was the previous motor
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by troye View Post
Compression is GREAT.

This is a fresh engine with 300 miles on it.
Detonated head was the previous motor
Is it an entirely different engine or did you just rebuild the old one? If it's the latter you still could have issues from a warped head.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:47 AM   #9
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The engine is solid. The head was tanked, pressure tested, rebuilt, etc...
The entire block was stripped and rebuilt. Compression is great. When I picked it up it ran like a beast except when it went into limp mode due to bad gas
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:49 AM   #10
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Honestly sounds like a vacuum leak to me. If I were you that's the next thing I would look into since you have eliminated most other probable causes. Also have you checked the fuel pump to make sure you are getting the appropriate pressure to the rail? Just another thought since you said it drove fine for 300 miles...
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:49 AM   #11
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Thanks Burton, how to I start checking for vacuum leak? I have not yet tested for the fuel pressure I was trying to figure this out exactly where to connect to to check. But my thought is due to the blackness of the plugs that it is getting enough fuel but this could be flawed thinking for sure!
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Thanks Burton, how to I start checking for vacuum leak? I have not yet tested for the fuel pressure I was trying to figure this out exactly where to connect to to check. But my thought is due to the blackness of the plugs that it is getting enough fuel but this could be flawed thinking for sure!
No that is a good point about the plugs. I would focus on a vacuum leak. The main places I would check is the Intake Manifold to the head and TB to Intake Manifold. First thing I would do is make sure all the bolts are torqued to spec. If that doesn't work I'd confirm that your gaskets are sealing properly.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM   #13
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The thing is that if it was a vacuum leak, the plugs wouldn't be that color, they would be more of a white (the leak would cause it to run lean). And since he is getting good compression, it doesn't seem as it would be something with the block/head. So it gets me to think that it might be something fuel related, like injectors, or even something ecu related. BUT, I would start with the coil packs, that's probably your best bet. The black plug means either bad spark (you did replace the plugs), which leaves it to be coil packs, or something fuel related like injectors or ecu.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:30 PM   #14
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Just a thought, but could the bad fuel have impacted the fuel filter? That would tend to produce similar symptoms.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:53 PM   #15
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Your plugs are sooty because there isn't enough air in the mixture. Look at air delivery starting at the breather intake, filter, etc.
Then, if that's solid, I'd suspect a poorly secured intake manifold gasket. It might sound counter-intuitive but a leak there will provide less air to the mixture.
From lawn mowers to rockets, there are 3 principals of internal combustion; proper fuel mixture ignited at the right time under the appropriate compression.
I suspect the reason you aren't pulling codes is because it dies before the first diagnostic sweep.
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halfast Eddie View Post
Your plugs are sooty because there isn't enough air in the mixture. Look at air delivery starting at the breather intake, filter, etc.
Then, if that's solid, I'd suspect a poorly secured intake manifold gasket. It might sound counter-intuitive but a leak there will provide less air to the mixture.
From lawn mowers to rockets, there are 3 principals of internal combustion; proper fuel mixture ignited at the right time under the appropriate compression.
I suspect the reason you aren't pulling codes is because it dies before the first diagnostic sweep.
Yeah, that plug definitely looks carbon fouled.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:31 AM   #17
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A couple more ideas:
- Don't 2 sensors on the TB have *very* similar plugs? I believe it's MAP and TPS? (been a little while). What you're describing sounds like it could be the result of a bad MAP sensor (fuel mix looks WAY off). I know you said you replaced it, but I personally would start with double checking your throttle body connections to ensure the sensors are plugged in correctly. If reversed, the MAP sensor won't be reading properly and you'll run super rich
- Are your throttle cables too tight causing a high idle? Either the throttle cable or cruise control cable. This could be forcing the throttle body open and leading to a high idle
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:15 AM   #18
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This may have already been addressed since you rebuilt the motor to stock but have you adjusted valve lash? They may be a few mm off specification.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:13 PM   #19
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ClubRSX guys thanks for all of the help here, it is very much appreciated.
When I picked up the car it was a screamin' demon, as mentioned except for it going into limp mode.Once cleared it was scream ready again

Valve Lash - All valves "should" be adjusted and good to go.
All bolts are torqued to spec or better. Any bolts I have tried to remove from the build have been at spec or tighter.
IMG - New Hondata gasket, I will check all IM bolts
Similar plugs - They are not that similar actually, I checked that already
Fuel Injectors - should be fine as they were cleaned
Throttle body cables - they seem to be fine.
Plugs - yes three sets, and will do one more new set once this is figured out. Strangely enough the Laser Iridiums ($$$) do not work the best (still not conclusive)
MAP - I have another post with no answer about 2004 MAP same as 2005. Part #'s are different, but Kseries compatibility checker and my mechanic says they are the same. I was doubtful about it so I bought the 2005 MAP from Ebay (not oem) originally. Actually the car runs better with the 2004 MAP

I did discover the throttle body gasket was covering the "extra" hole in the throttle body. Mind you it has been this way even when it was 'screamin'

Here is what I will be doing next, should be done no later than Tuesday, all parts here or on their way
Fuel Pump and Strainer
OEM MAP
OEM Throttle body gasket
ACUITY Hall Effect TPS
IACV

IACV - should I be able to manually turn it with the sensor / motor still attached?
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Old 05-20-2017, 05:57 PM   #20
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I was going to say o2 but you already did that
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:01 PM   #21
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is this thing on a stock ecu? Does it have any mods, header, intake , exhaust, RBC, Kpro, Ktuner? If you have a scan tool with live data, connect it and look at the short term fuel trim (STFT) to see what it's doing. It should be no more than -10% to +10%. That may give you an idea of why the plugs are so sooty.
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:04 AM   #22
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Hello Daje00

Thanks.
Stock ECU. I don't have an advanced scan tool with live data. One of my buddies also mentioned fuel trim.

Mods: Injen CAI

Kpro V1 (ripped off by another member here, sold it as V3) sitting in a box along with my RBC and required parts to connect

This issue might incentivize me to send it in for upgrade to V4
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:41 PM   #23
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The kpro should be able to give u the live data. Install it and see what happens.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:51 PM   #24
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If as is and no upgrade I will give it a try!
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Old 05-22-2017, 06:25 PM   #25
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Here's an off the wall AF thought, but when all else fails....
Take off the intake plenum and look for obstructions like piece of rag, a gerbil, etc; inspect gasket surfaces, throttle body for proper response. Confirm unrestricted airflow. Complete troubleshooting, step by step. Using parts from the donor motor on a new short block can have unpredictable weirdness. Get all the mechanical squared away first, then dive into electronics.
Side note: I miss the good old days, when you just needed to worry about the price of coal. F-ing technology.
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