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sound quality question

3K views 19 replies 3 participants last post by  mjc189 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a pioneer 6200bt radio hooked up to 2 amps (using 1 RCA passing through the amp) one for my comps and one for my subs. I used to have a head unit that had one RCA out, so I have an autotek fx-3b 2/3 way cross over that I used with some Y cables . Would I get better sound if I use autotek crossover with the 6200bt? or should I just run another RCA from the sub out to subs amp and forget the crossover?

I actually HATE the pioner interface, so if I rip the radio out and put a tablet in there with a DAC hooked up to the autotek crossover will I get good sound quality?

EDIT: by good sound quality I mean about CD quality.
 
#3 ·
Yep on 1

on 2 it depends on what you want to spend, you will never get cd quality out of MP3 based streaming (Pandora, Spotify, ect) and never off bluetooth sources. But if you had an Ipod or usb drive hooked up and were sending either apple lossless or FLAC files yes you could get CD quality if you are using the right equipment so you would also need a DAC with an optical out to a good dsp unit like a Mosconi 6to8, Fosgate 3sixty.3, Arc PS-8, or other higher end units.
 
#4 · (Edited)
if i use y cables from back of head unit from front /rear speaker rca output hook that to the 2 channelamp(components) and then run a seperate rca wire to my subs that will be better than my crossover?

will the ipod input (not aux... actual usb connection/ proprietary pioneer cable on rear) sound close to cd? would this sound similar to the dac snd high end dsp using a tablet as head unit?
t
thanks for the info...a LOT has changed since I had a car system

EDIT LOCOTONY I noticed old posts where you mentioned edesign subs and working with them frequently. would you happen to have th full specs on 12kd4 subs ? I know they run 400watts rms and can hamdle way more. I just wonder what the frequency response is and what size the box is supposed to be.
 
#5 ·
Can't really tell you on the first part w/o knowing what amp it is, but in general you are better off running direct from the HU and using it's xovers so you adjust settings on the fly.

As for the Ipod going into the pioneer I believe the decoding is done by the HU as with the proprietary ipod connectors they usually are set to send the raw stream as most HU's have a better DAC than the Ipod 's and you will get decent SQ from it w/o dsp/ Main reason you need DSP with a tablet is you only have 2 channels of output and you need to be able to split it out for front/rear/Sub outs and have xover, time alignment and eq ability which you are getting out of the HU now (maybe not time alignment).

ed sub's not sure which one you are describing here, is it the 13Kv.2 which would have a silver cone, or is it one of the older ones with the black flat cone. Kv.2 I could probably dig up specs but the older K series probably not.
 
#7 ·
Not sure on those, they were the first gen K's prior to theflat cones, I believe TC sounds was the buildhouse for them and they were similar in spec to the Image Dynamics ID v2's iirc
 
#8 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info.

is IDQ the same thing? I assume this datasheet will give me "close enough" specs? http:
//www.caraudio.com/forums/attachments/subwoofers/26533587d1340090570-image-dynamics-v-2-spec-sheets-idq10-d2-d4-idq12-d2-d4-idq12-d4-v.2-spec-sheet.jpg

If I decide to use 1 sub and only connect 1 voice coil and bridge my amp (4 ohm mono 800watts rms )and keep the gain set low would my amp run hotter? good idea as long as I don't get stupid with the volume knob? would I need to feed more power to my comps to keep up with sub?

EDIT: the subs are definitely wired up @ 2ohms. well after posting I decided to take a look at my subs and it turns out the surround on one of them is torn 3/4 around the woofer! I guess that's what 10years will do to a sub, bc the gain was less than half way and I never turned it up that loud. I think I might try to fix it, will any rubber kit that fits the size do?
 
#9 ·
Not the same as the IDQ, ID is/was lower line, specs are not the same IDQ was more in line with the O/Ov.2 line.

I wouldn't bother trying to fix those better stuff is available now.
 
#10 ·
really ? these hit so HARD back in the day!! lol
would I be able to get away with running 1 12 with todays technology and be happier? I understand the box is super important but take in account running old vs new in a "close enough box" would todays budget sub outperform these 2 ? Reason I say close enough is I don't want to lose all my trunk space. So sealed box with fill.


If so what sub would do this at a reasonable cost? I would be running it at 4 ohms 800watts. I don't want to get a new amp.

My amp also will do 400watts x2 @ 2 ohms per channel if you can convince me of going with 2 8 inch subs or 2 10 inch subs- those SA-8 seem like they are monsters for such a small cone!
 
#11 ·
Wait til late this year early next year on the SA-8's the sd-2 line is being replaced by the sd-3 sometime late this year and everything I have read on DIYMA points to an even better performer than the current one as well as a small seald box optimized 10 and 12 with the same design parameters (current 10 and 12 are different designs from the 8). Its one of the reasons I am going IB in my Civic with 2 Acoustic Elegance 12's over the 2 SD-2 10's sealed in the sides, Don't want to buy the older stuff when better is coming

What is your actual budget for a sub as cone area is really everything when it comes down to it and a single 15 sealed only takes up a little more space than a pair of 10's (depending on manufacturer) Or if you were looking for an Uber SQ small space sub You could look at the Stereo Integrity BM mkIV as it is a 12 that plays flat down to 20hz in .5 cuft, only needs a max of 450 watts, but costs 389. It is not going to pound the ground but it will be one of the cleanest, transparent sounding subs you will ever hear.
 
#12 ·
to be honest I don't really want to replace my sub (yet...maybe after it's in there for a while I'll change my mind) I just applied some silicone to the foam surround and waiting for it to dry. If that fails a friend I work with will help replace the surround. But if I do replace them $250ish for the sub(s) would be where I need to be.

I still think first thing I'm going to do is replace the pioneer deck. I'm looking at the alpine CDE-153BT and using my IPod. <- This is probably the easiest/ best setup.

Option A
But I'm still thinking about slapping a 7" android tablet in there (no head unit) with a DAC to my autotek crossover. Something about navigation, pandora radio and internet in the dash for way less than a double din is why I'm even thinking about doing it.I know the apline will give best sound quality, but I use FLAAC files on USB or apple lossless on the ipod anyway. I don't use CDs anymore so it seems like I would setup for sound quality I wouldn't use/hear.

I would wire it up:

tablet>DAC>RCA line level control>Ycable on RCAs for sub signal and High signal to crossover>Serperate RCA from crossover to each amp

Line level control would be mounted in dash as quick volume knob. Autotek cross also has bass vol control knob.

Option B
AS I type this I just had a better (maybe?) idea. push the pioneer I already have back and leave it in AUX mode with a Y cable to tablet headphone jack, flat level for EQ. I would use the RCA level control for the signal being sent to the crossover and have my volume knobs up front, never having to deal with the pioneer again!

So of my complicated options is A or B better? Sorry for the long post but nobody around here that I know is into car audio. I want to say thanks again for the info.
 
#13 ·
You are taking a step down going to alpine last good SQ deck they made was the 9852 and that was 2005-6, Newer units have been getting dumbed down with less features unless you use add on processors like the PXA-H800 with the RUX-C800 and there are better DSP solutions out there for cheaper. Pioneer and Kenwood own alpine on SQ these days most SQ cars right now are either using a Pioneer DEX p99 stand alone or DEH-80/Kenwood 998 or 8901 with outboard processing. Only Alpines you usually see in competition these days are the older units as they are better than any current Alpine.

anything you do the autotek is a weak link their old stuff pre-maxxsonics buying them was good american made equipment, now it is just a different version of the hifonics/crunch/Quart stuff.

You keep saying you want SQ but you are not wanting to spend money to get it as for real SQ if you are going the android route you need tablet-dac-dsp, amps and the lowest cost dsp's are going to be the PPI DSP-88r/Soundstream Harmony (identical units internally, both are based on the mini-dsp unit). 230 is all the PPI variant runs.

for 250 for subs single 15 maybe if you are willing to go up 275 for an SSA GCON but most of your true SQ subs are out of your price range for a pair, IDQ 10's are 280 a pop, and a single IDmax 10 runs 500, JL w6 400 a 10. if you want the good stuff you have to pay for it.
 
#14 · (Edited)
That pioneer is big money! I think I should have been clearer when I asked for SQ. I wanted to know with my setup pioneer w old american made autotek crossover vs idea of tablet with dac which would be better. I also stated sq cause I don't care about spl really. these other options I know will be better but I can't afford them. I'm completely unready to buy a sub now as I never expected to have problems with mine. If I go for top notch sound quality now I will be pretty much starting over. The real reason I dont want to keep my pioneer is i hate that 4 way control knThat pioneer is big money! I think I should have been clearer when I asked for SQ. I wanted to know with my setup pioneer w old american made autotek crossover vs idea of tablet with dac which would be better. I also stated sq cause I don't care about spl really. these other options I know will be better but I can't afford them. I'm completely unready to buy a sub now as I never expected to have problems with mine. If I go for top notch sound quality now I will be pretty much starting over. The real reason I dont want to keep my pioneer is i hate that 4 way control knob. It actually sounds good. I probably won't do the tablet cause it probably will sound horrible unless I spend big.

If I could find a good sounding cheap ipod radio that has usb on the rear of the unit with a simple interface (why I was looking at alpine) I'll go with that. Bonus if it can stream pandora from my phone.

ob. It actually sounds good. I probably won't do the tablet cause it probably will sound horrible unless I spend big.

If I could find a good sounding cheap ipod radio that has usb on the rear of the unit with a simple interface (why I was looking at alpine) I'll go with that. Bonus if it can stream pandora from my phone.
Edit.... how is that mini dsp tuned? Computer timed? And I see it has a volume knob... I could use this as system volume? I also found specs for the subs. http://www.caraudio.com/forums/wanting-trade-wtt-car-audio/409825-wtt-12-ed12k-sub.html
I dont fully understand them but I seen other people say 1 cubic ft each sub should be good?
 
#15 ·
IF you are talking about the PPI/SS dsp yes they have a volume control that can control system level as well as shifting between your user defined curves. That is why using those with a good DAC that has an optical out is the best bet with a Tablet as the optical helps eliminate any noise issues at the tablet level and the dsp gives you the xover/eq/time alignment. As far as control of the ppi/ss dsp it is all done though a laptop, probably will have an android app at some point but you can download and play with the interface from PPI here: http://precisionpower.com/store/products/accessories/signal-processors/deq-8-127.html
 
#16 ·
well at $230 for the mini dsp you sold me should I get a tablet. it does connect to the amp via rca right? cause the channels are labeled a b c etc 1port per letter.

thanks again for all the info now I need to find about all the sub paramaters and box design. know of a good tutorial?
 
#19 ·
Not really its the GIGO theory there garbage in, garbage out, and the best signal is always going to be CD. pandora, spotify all use maybe 128kbs MP3's which is to save bandwidth and sounds like ass.
 
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