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Old 04-19-2004, 10:59 AM   #1
conradb212
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Hondata K-Pro and reflash FAQ/Tuning resources

This FAQ answers most questions about the Hondata reflash, the Hondata k100, and the Hondata K-Pro. The information is based on my own experience with the Hondata reflash and K-Pro. Thanks go to Doug and Derek at Hondata. Corrections/suggested additions are welcome.

What products of interest do they have for me?

Four. 1) Reflashes for the Acura RSX and TSX, and Honda Civic Si computer, which we call "ECU," for Engine Control Unit. 2) The K-Pro system, which consists of a hardware addition to the Acura RSX, Civic Si and the Euro Civic Type R ECU, and PC software to program the ECU. 3) The tuner-programmable k100 ECU add-on board. 4) An Intake Manifold gasket which keeps the manifold cooler than the thin stock metal gasket.


Does Hondata affect my warranty?

Hondata says: A dealer cannot deny warranty simply because you have changed a part - see the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Basically, a dealer has to honor the warranty unless they can prove the part you changed caused the fault. e.g. altering your wheels & tires should not effect a warranty claim on the a/c. This sounds straightforward but often things fall into a gray area. For example, supercharging the engine and then trying to warranty a transmission failure. Did the transmission fail because of the extra engine power? Much depends on the relationship with your dealer.

I heard Hondata increases the rev limiter. Is that safe?

Hondata says: "The JDM K20A has a 8600 rpm limiter, whilst the US K20A2 with the same internal parts has a 8100 rpm limiter, so we are comfortable increasing the rev limiter to 8600 or 8800 rpm. ... Hitting the rev limit places a lot of stress on the engine, no matter where the limiter is. It is better to rev to 8500 rpm than hit the limiter at 8100 rpm.... Early K20A & K20A2 engines had weaker dual intake valve springs. Honda upgraded these some time in 2002 to a single valve spring (supposedly from the S2000). Owners of the earlier engines should consider changing the valve springs if they race the car.... Connecting rods are a point of debate at the moment. We know they can fail at 9500 rpm, so set the rev limit below 9000 rpm.

What's the difference between the reflash and the K-Pro?

The reflash is a one-time changing of the stock ECU programming. You send in your ECU, immobilizer and key, and Hondata will program the ECU and send it back to you. The K-Pro system lets you program the ECU yourself after Hondata has added a daughterboard and a USB connector to your ECU. You can then connect a computer to the ECU, run the Hondata K-Pro K-Manager software and either load one of the numerous "calibrations" Hondata ships with the software (many run well without the need for further tuning), or have a tuner create a custom calibration for your car.

Reflash

How do I get the reflash?

Hondata does not sell directly. You must order the reflash from a Hondata dealer such as ClubRSX. If you order from ClubRSX, you receive a box with a Fedex label. You remove the ECU and the immobilizer (it sits around the ignition key lock of the car - (click to see)) and send both, plus your car key, to Hondata. Hondata will do the reprogramming and overnight the box back to you the same day they receive it. You usually get the box back 48 hours after you send it. You then put the immobilizer and the ECU back in the car. All done.

Why do I have to send the immobilizer and key?!!

Because the immobilizer reads the information embedded in the key. Only if it matches will the immobilizer give the ECU the go ahead to start the car. Hondata needs the key and immobilizer to reflash your ECU (the ECU and immobilizer are programmed to match your keys).

How much performance will I gain from the reflash?

That depends on the modifications on your car. Most people see improvements throughout the powerband. The most dramatic increase for 2002/2004 ECUs is around 5,800 rpm where horsepower gains can be 15-25 and torque gains almost that much; 2005 ECU gains are a bit less. The big midrange gain is primarily because Hondata lowers the VTEC point. There are also gains at the top of the rpm range, though they are usually less.

Is it true that Hondata changed the VTEC point in the Hondata 4 reflash?

Yes. Initially, the Hondata 4 reflash had a fixed VTEC point at 5,200 rpm. This fixed point has been changed to a VTEC window. At full throttle the 2002/2004 engine will go into VTEC at 5,200 rpm and at part throttle as high as 5,800 rpm. The 2005 has a VTEC window from 4,900 to 5,800 rpm.

I have the Hondata reflash. Can I upgrade to the K-Pro?

Yes, Hondata offers a special price for existing Hondata customers. Instead of US$999 for new customers, the upgrade is US$500.

I want to swap ECUs with someone who has the reflash. Can do?

Yes, but you'll need to have the new ECU matched to your immobilizer and key by a Honda/Acura dealer as the ECU and immobilizer are programmed to match your keys. So both of you need to go there, exchange ECUs, and have them matched. Honda/Acura does that through the OBDII port with the Honda Diagnostics System. Dealers usually charges about $90 per car for this. (Note: Honda and Acura immobilizers are slightly different. If you use a RSX ECU in a Civic Si or vice versa, prepare to have the immobilizer reflashed as well.)

I bought a matching ECU/immobilizer/key. Can I use them in my car?

Sort of. You can install the ECU and Immobilizer. Hold the key next to the immobilizer, used your own backup key (it is not coded), and start the car. (Thanks WillMTran for this tip)

Can the Hondata reflash be detected by a service technician?

Only if someone is looking for it. Each ECU has a CVN (Calibration Verification Number). Any change to the ECU's programming will change that number. Experienced Honda mechanics will also be able to tell by other parameters changed by the Hondata reflash.

K-Pro

What's in the package when I get the K-Pro back?

You'll get the modified ECU (it will now have a USB port and a Hondata sticker on it), Hondata software on a CD (for Windows XP; no Mac or Linux versions although K-Manager runs on Mac OS X with Virtual PC), a 6-foot long USB cable, a jumper for Nitrous applications, instructions, and two Hondata stickers.

Do I have to send in the key and immobilizer for the K-Pro upgrade?

Not according to Hondata: "No key and immobilizer is needed. As long as you install that ECU back into the car from which it came, the immobilizer will function. If you want to use your programmable ECU in another car you will need to switch off the immobilizer in the software."

Do I need a laptop for K-Pro?

Yes, if you want to datalog or upload calibrations into the K-Pro. You can, of course, set up a desktop PC in your garage and upload a calibration from there. Used laptops with enough power to run the K-Pro software and datalog at a decent rate can be had for less than $400 on eBay and other places.

What do I do next?

Install the Hondata software on your notebook. If you have an internet connection, fire up K-Manager and use Help>Check for Updates to see if a later version is available. At this point you can also install the USB driver needed for the computer to communicate with the ECU. The ECU does not need to be in the car for that. Simply connect it and Windows will find the ECU and ask you for the driver. Point Windows to the Hondata directory and it will install the driver.

Next re-install the ECU. Note that the USB port on the ECU points forward. Once installed, the port will be next to inaccessible, so install the ECU with the USB cable plugged in. Now start the car and see if all works okay.

I installed the K-Pro and now have a yellow key-like light flashing in my dash.

That's the immobilizer-off warning light. Hondata's calibrations come with the immobilizer function turned off. You can turn it back on in the ECU Manager under Windows>Parameters>Misc.

I got my K-Pro and installed it, and now my fuel pump does not seem to work!

Do you have a PRC ECU and didn't tell Hondata? If so, they may not have made a circuit board alteration affecting the fuel pump. To check, remove the circuit board from the case and look near the connectors for jumper J160. There should be two solder pads bridged with a piece of wire. If not solder a piece of wire across.

Does the engine need to be off when I upload a calibration?

There are two types of uploads. When you upload a calibration that is not already in the ECU, the initial upload will take about 30-60 seconds. The engine must be off for that. If you then make changes to an already loaded calibration, the incremental upload will only take a couple of seconds to upload into the ECU, and the engine can be on for that. I recommend that the engine always be off for updates.

But I don't even know what calibration is on my ECU!

Unfortunately, the ECU Manager software does not tell you what calibration is loaded. What you can do is download the calibration and check the values. Hondata usually loads the plain vanilla "factory" calibration.

What are some of the important parameters?

Important ones include setting the immobilizer, rev limit, VTEC point or VTEC window, idle speed, lean and boost protection, temperature compensation, set the MIL light to flicker when the engine knocks (a common occurrence when you start out with a calibration), and others.

VTEC Window? What's that?

The K-Series engine can either switch from the low-speed cam to the high-speed cam at a specific rpm point (the “VTEC point”) or it can switch during an rpm range depending on manifold pressure (a “VTEC window”). You can set the lower VTEC boundary to, say, 4300 rpm at 98 kPa (full throttle) and at 5800 rpm at 24 kPA (light throttle). Inbetween those two points, the engine will switch cams on a linear curve.

What is “datalogging”?

Datalogging is one of the best features of the K-Pro. You connect your notebook PC to the K-Pro to record a total of over 40 sensor values. When you're done recording (all recorded data is on your notebook, not the ECU) you save the datalog file with a descriptive name (like “myrsx_august24_fromwork”). You can then examine the data at your leisure. This is hugely educational and can also help you find what's wrong (or not optimal) with your calibration.

What is the recording “frame rate”?

Each set of sensor values the K-Pro records is called a “frame.” The “frame rate” is the number of frames the K-Pro records every second. That number depends primarily on how many of the K-Pro's windows you have open (those that display live data during datalogging slow things down a lot), but also how fast your computer is. With a modern notebook and the latest version of the K-Manager you may see as many as 60 frames per second with all windows closed, and as few as 10 or 12 frames per second with all windows open. For best data analysis you need as many frames per second as possible.

How do I look at the data from the datalog?

You load a datalog, then click Windows>Graph. Initially there is only one default graph. You can create your own custom graph templates via Options>Graph Templates. You can add as many custom graphs as you want. Each one can have between one and four graphs, and each graph can track between one and four sensors.

I am looking at graphs. All I see is lines.

A template displays up to four graphs. Each sensor displays data within a minimum and a maximum value. You can set minimum and maximum under Options>Sensors. Also, you can click on any point in the graph. A vertical dotted line will appear. If you have the Sensors window open, the exact value for each sensor can now be seen.

What does "Table follows VTEC" and "Tables follows Cam Angle" mean?

Open a datalog and also open the "Tables" window. Now move through the datalog in a Graph. With neither of these options checked, the table will never change. If you check the "VTEC" box, the table will toggle between low-speed cam to high speed cam depending on what point in the log you're looking at. If you click "follows cam angle" the software will always bring up the proper cam angle table. If you click both, it will switch both cam angle tables and low-cam/high-cam.

Will my gas mileage go down if I install the K-Pro?

According to Hondata: "As long as you have a working o2 sensor and run in closed loop, fuel economy is pretty much invariant. Closed loop ensures the A/F ratio is close to 14.7:1 while at part throttle, so the only variables to tune are ignition and cam timing. Hondata did testing on the dyno, changing ignition and cam timing, measuring the manifold vacuum to achieve a certain power at certain rpm (30 hp at 3500 rpm to simulate highway cruise). The maximum power (lowest manifold pressure) was at anywhere from 36-44 degrees of timing at part throttle, which matches the stock ignition maps fairly well. Maximum power for cam timing was between 10-20 degrees advance, which is slightly less than the typical stock setting of 30 degrees at cruise. Typcially we see from zero to a couple of mpg inprovement over stock with a tuned ECU."

I loaded a calibration and now my car is knocking.

That is a common occurence when you first load K-Pro calibrations. They are very aggressive and you'll likely have to retard igniton here and there to get rid of knocking.

Why across all cam tables when knocking only happens in one ignition table?

It may look like only one because you see that highlighted 2x2 square in the table. In fact, the Hondata program interpolates an actual value by looking at the four closest values, and also interpolates across cam tables. A total of eight values determine the actual value the ECU uses. This is why you need to make the initial corrections across all tables.

Why does ignition advance at idle show zero?

According to Hondata, idle uses a special emissions ignition value.

Does long term fuel trim affect open loop operation?

According to Hondata, it does not.

I loaded a friend's calibration and in the 2-D graph, values are off the map!

That happens when you look at some older calibrations with a new version of the software. Hondata says: This is caused by the tables being uninitialised from columns 14-16 when you load an old calibration. You need to replicate column 13 into 14-16 to fix this for pre 1.1 calibrations.

My air-fuel ratio is always 11.48 at full throttle. Why?

The K-Series wideband oxygen sensor only reads down to 11.48. Most likely you're running richer than that.

How does the K-Pro work with a race header that doesn't have a secondary oxygen sensor?

The K-Pro uses the primary (wideband) oxygen sensor to determine air-fuel ratio and for open/closed loop operation. The secondary sensor simply determines if the cat is there and the primary sensor is working. Without the secondary sensor, the ECU will cause a P0134 error code that can be disabled in the K-Pro Parameters window.

What happens if I disable OBDII in the Parameters window?

Disabling OBDII turns off monitoring of the following sensors: secondary oxygen, fuel tank pressure, electrical load, and atmospheric pressure. This means OBDII tests cannot be conducted. Switching of ODBII functions does not affect the way the engine runs and closed loop operation is not affected. Fuel economy will be the same.

Some non-Type-S ECUs (like the Japanese market PRC ECU) do not support some of the sensors. If such an ECU is used, those sensors must be disabled or else you get an error code.

Can I run the K-Pro without either of the two oxygen sensors?

Hondata says: "I run my race car with no o2 sensors without any problems. You will need to disable everything and run open loop. As far as tuning goes, as long as the dyno has a wide band there should be no problems. However for a street car it is a bad idea to run open loop unless you spent time on the part throttle fuel maps and get them close to perfect."

Can I use (brandname) cams with K-Pro?

Hondata says: "For anything other than stock or Toda cams you need to mock up the cylinder head and measure clearences. To do this properly you need a pin to lock the high lobe and an indexed intake cam sprocket. Once you have established the maximum safe advance on the intake you pull apart the intake cam sprocket and pin it so that the cam has a physical stop. From memory with crowers cams this is at about 30-35 degrees advance."

What spark plugs should I use?

Caution here! Non-resistor plugs (rare, but some people buy them) can cause ECU malfunction. See http://www.hondata.com/techksparkplugs.html

How does one tune the K-Pro?

There are three major ways: 1) If you know what you're doing you can tune/tweak it yourself by making sure the air/fuel ratio is optimal in all areas and that the car does not knock (of course, that way you won't have dyno numbers to see what your changes did). 2) A tuner can tune your car by starting with one of the base maps and then optimize that map on his dyno. 3) A tuner can start from scratch, like Hondata did, create dyno curves for each cam angle, then create a composite curve and dynotune this to perfection. That is expensive. Also see http://pencomputing.com/rsx/tuning_f...libration.html.

I use a turbo. Does the K-Pro work with it and how do I tune it?

Hondata says:

You can start with the reflash and upgrade to K-Pro to work with any turbo kit. The K series Honda ECU (and K-Pro as well) require and work best with 12 ohm injectors. RC Engineering sell these in 440, 550, 650 and 750 cc in size. The K-Pro works with any boosted engine up to 12 psi boost, and more with a 3-bar MAP sensor. No piggybacks are needed or recommended. Tuning of a boosted engine includes:

1) Setting the cam angles
2) Retarding the ignition timing as boost increases
3) Setting the optimum VTEC point for part and full throttle operation
4) Tuning the part throttle and full throttle fuel maps to match the injectors
5) Altitude compensation - making sure that altitude the ECU sees the correct boost pressure to deliver the correct fuel and ignition. At wide open throttle on a stock ECU reads pressure in the ECU and not the boost pressure in the manifold. At altitude this advances the ignition and leans the fuel. The K-Pro fixes this.
6) Closed loop control. On boosted cars the stock ECU will hold 14.7:1 air fuel ratio after a gear change for several seconds and when going to boost from a cruise. On the road it is far too lean for a boosted engine. The K-Pro fixes this by switching off closed loop when a preset level of boost is reached.

You can skip some of these steps, but you will be down on power and compromising long term reliability. So, as long as you know what is necessary to have a well tuned engine, (and this will require tuning by an expert) you can make the best decisions for your purchase.


Does the K-Pro work with Nitrous?

Yes. There is a control panel for nitrous operation. The K-Pro switches on nitrous based on rpm, throttle position, vehicle speed, and air pressure. It also switches off nitrous before the fuel cut-off.

Why does Hondata recommend a dry nitrous system

Hondata says: "If you have a wet system and hit the rev limit, 1) the rev limit will not be there and you will overrev because the ECU cuts the fuel but the wet system keeps supplying it, 2), as a result you will run very lean. Ignition retard is essential as with nitrous the mixture burns faster. Not retarding the ignition will put huge stress on the rods.

I want to boost more than 12 psi. Can do with K-Pro?

K-Manager versions 1.1.1 and later have 3-bar MAP sensor support, which translates into 29 psi of boost (you'll need to replace the stock MAP sensor). For wiring tips, click here.

I have a boosted car. What specific advantages does the K-Pro offer me?

Hondata says:

1) Factory boost mapping with ignition retard and fuel increase on boost
2) Switching to open loop on boost eliminating hesitation and part throttle lean spots.
3) Correct calibration for larger injectors. (Meaning easy starts and good emissions)
4) Correct altitude compensation. The stock ECU leans out and advances ignition the higher in altitude you climb. You do not want this in a boosted car.
5) The cam angles can be dialed in for your specific exhaust setup. The better your exhaust, the more cam advance is needed.

The "Maintenance Required" light is on in my car. Can K-Pro turn it off?

You don't need a K-Pro to turn it off. Turn off the engine, press and hold the odometer button, switch the ignition to position II, and then keep holding the button in and the maintenance light should go out within about five seconds.

I have a (fill in brand of fuel management piggyback). Can I still use the K-Pro?

Hondata advises: Remove it. Anything that modifies signals to the ECU will not allow you to tune the car properly.

Is the RSX supposed to have high or low impedance injectors?

Any injector driven directly by the Honda ECU should be a 12 or 16 ohm injector. Low impedance injectors used without a resistor pack will burn out the ECU. Also note that there is a HUGE difference between 12 and 16 ohm injectors of the same capacity. Make sure the ohms of the injector you pick matches the ohms of the injectors used in a calibration, else your fuel will be way off.

What ECUs will work in my car, can I upgrade them to K-Pro, and are there any differences?

The ECUs for all US market RSX base (manual shift only), RSX Type-S and Civic Si are interchangeable as long as they have been modified to K-Pro status and loaded with the proper calibrations. According to Hondata, there are some minor differences: "The PRB (RSX -S) has reverse lockout for the 6 speed. The others do not. The PND (RSX Base Manual) has intake runner control. The PPA (CRV Manual) has intake runner control. The PNF has neither intake runner control nor reverse lockout. The Japanese PRC ECU does not have nitrous outputs. There may be other differences, but it would seem a program runs the same in all these ECUs." Note: Civic and RSX immobilizers are slightly different and may need to be reflashed.

I heard the RSX has a wideband oxygen sensor. True?

Yes it has (although it only reads down to 11.48 AF). This allows you to use datalogging to adjust your air-fuel ratios. Note that not all K20 -Series engines have the wideband sensor. Those that have one are the US RSX Type-S, the US RSX base (I think), the JDM ITR, the JDM Civic Type R. Those that don't: the Euro Civic Type R (retrofitting is possible).

Hondata sounds wonderful. Are there any drawbacks?

That depends. The Hondata reflash and K-Pro are officially intended for off-road and racing use only. In California, especially, aftermarket changes must be CARB (California Air Resources Board) approved and come with a CARB sticker to prove it. Changing ECU settings is almost never CARB approved. A reflash could theoretically be CARB-approved (if Hondata went through the expense of having it tested and certified) because the customer cannot further change it. You can always have Hondata reflash a flashed ECU back to factory standard, or you could use two ECUs, one factory for road driving and one with the K-Pro modifications for racing.

Another issue is that the K-Pro DOES requires both the ability and the willingness to learn and fiddle with software. If you want to stay away from that, a simple reflash is the way to go for you.

Finally, make sure grounding is okay in your car! Hondata says, "It is very important that the ground from the wiring harness to the engine (G101) makes good electrical contact with the cylinder head. Otherwise the return path for the sensors, ignition and VTEC may be through the ECU case to the vehicle body, which may damage the ECU and/or programmable board inside the ECU."

I am really confused. Should I get the reflash or the K-Pro?

Here are the pros and cons for each:

Hondata #4: A tried-and-true reflash that works with most cars. It brings a bunch of extra power in the midrange by moving the VTEC point from 5800 to 5200, and it adds some on top. It is a relatively mild tune. It has to because once it's in, you can't go and fine-tune in case you have knocking. You can also have it reverted to stock by Hondata should the need arise. One problem: it may not work optimally with your particular setup. I had a distinct power dip with Hondata 4 and my Icebox. That's because each I/H/E combo has different air-fuel characteristics and Hondata 4 is one-size-fit-all.

K-Pro: This gives you complete and total control over your ECU via a daughterboard and a USB connection to your laptop. You can monitor over 40 datapoints at frames rates up to 60 frames per second. You can change fueling, ignition advance, cam angles, fuel cut-off, VTEC, rev limit, and tons more. The calibrations that come with it are quite aggressive and you'll likely have to play with the settings to get rid of initial knock, and Hondata suggests you have it professionally tuned. You'll need to learn a lot about not only the software, but about ignition, fueling, can cam timing concepts. If you're game, the K-Pro is endlessly fascinating, you'll never outgrow it as you modify your car, and you'll learn how it all fits together. However, in order to revert to factory stock, you'll have to undo the whole thing.

5/10/2008: I am not totally gone. :-) Will try to do a comprehensive update.

This is meant to be a resource page for people interested in tuning (and learning how to tune) their RSX. Some links go to pertinent posts, others to outside resources. All relate to the RSX. Let me know if anything should be added.

Alerts/recommendations
-Do not use non-resistor spark plugs in K-Series engines!

K-Pro How To's
-Hondata's advanced tuning instructions
-Advanced Tuning - Explanations and commentary of Hondata's tuning training sessions
-K-Pro: How to Locate and Eliminate Knock
-K-Pro: How to Tune Fuel
-K-Pro: Using the Lambda overlay to tune AF by SiK LiL pLaYa

Hondata K-Pro overviews
-Hondata's K-Pro page
-The Hondata K-Pro - A detailed description of the K-Pro and K-Pro tuning

Books:
-Forced Induction Performance Tuning: A Practical Guide to Supercharging and Turbocharging by A. Graham Bell
-How to Tune and Modify Engine Managements Systems by Jeff Hartman
-Four-Stroke Performance Tuning by A. Graham Bell
-Modern Engine Tuning by A. Graham Bell
-Building and Tuning High-Performance Fuel Injection by Ben Strader
-Supercharged! - Design, testing and Installation of Supercharger Systems, by Corky Bell

Tools and Utilities:
- Engine Tuning Calculators
- Injector dead time chart and resources
- K Series Cam Timing & Setups-101

Seminars:
- Hondata Seminar - A PDF of the official Hondata K-Pro Seminar
- Hondata Seminar - Additional Notes - Conrad's transcript of the Hondata K-Pro Seminar
- EFI 101
- EFI Advanced

Others:
- Conrad's RSX Page
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Last edited by Agent Smith; 09-17-2009 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 04-19-2004, 04:20 PM   #2
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Excellent. Add: Don't verify your ECU while the car is running. I would not suggest uploading a map while the car is running. Do everything with the key in ACCII. My own testing figured that part out.
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Old 04-19-2004, 10:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by wdsonny
Excellent. Add: Don't verify your ECU while the car is running. I would not suggest uploading a map while the car is running. Do everything with the key in ACCII. My own testing figured that part out.
Why? I have been doing the uploads when it was running. Did i possibly hurt anything?

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Old 04-20-2004, 12:38 AM   #4
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Why? I have been doing the uploads when it was running. Did i possibly hurt anything?
AK
When you upload a calibration that is not already in the ECU, the upload takes about 30-45 seconds and the engine must be off.

When you upload the same calibration that is already in the ECU, even if you changed it, the upload only takes a few seconds and can be done with the engine running.

If you uploaded a new calibration, the kind that usually takes 30-45 seconds, while the engine was running and nothing went wrong, then I guess you were lucky as Hondata clearly warns against it.
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Mods: Stage 3 Comptech SC, AEM CAI, Comptech street header, stock cat, modified stock injectors, Hondata K-Pro, Hondata IMG, Fujitsubo PG catback, cat, 225/45-17 Falken Azenis RT-615 on Kazera rims, Mugen SS, Quaife LSD, CT lightweight flywheel and street clutch, ACT heavy-duty pressure plate, CT rear sway/tie bar and titanium front strut brace, Type-R replica wing, CT short shifter, Auto Meter Sport Comp full-sweep boost gauge. Current results: 290 whp on DynaPack. Web: My RSX and K-Pro page. My Blog: ECU Tuning
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Old 04-20-2004, 10:20 AM   #5
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I didn't try and upload a new calibration, all I did was try and verify the calibration. Don't do that.
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Old 04-29-2004, 03:20 PM   #6
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I dont plan to run too much boost, but if I get the reflash, will i be able to upgade boost and re-tune the e-manage, or will the program be locked?
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Old 05-11-2004, 11:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by conradb212
What’s in the package when I get the K-Pro back?

You’ll get the modified ECU (it will now have a USB port and a Hondata sticker on it), your immobilizer and ignition key, Hondata software on a CD, a 6-foot long USB cable, a jumper for Nitrous applications, instructions, and two Hondata stickers.
Excellent info. However, the K-Pro does not require that you send in your key or immobilizer. I just ordered, and was confused when I got the package from Club RSX, because the package contained instructions for removing the immobilizer *and* another sheet listing what to send to Hondata that only noted the ecu and the mailing label. I called Hondata and spoke to Matt, who told me that I didn't need to send the key and immobilizer. Nice, because it will make removal and re-installation a little bit easier.

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Old 05-11-2004, 11:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 4thGenTeg
Excellent info. However, the K-Pro does not require that you send in your key or immobilizer. I just ordered, and was confused when I got the package from Club RSX, because the package contained instructions for removing the immobilizer *and* another sheet listing what to send to Hondata that only noted the ecu and the mailing label. I called Hondata and spoke to Matt, who told me that I didn't need to send the key and immobilizer. Nice, because it will make removal and re-installation a little bit easier.

I was under the impression that initially they did want the key and immobilizer (I sent in mine). However, there is a difference between the reflash (where they must have the key/immobilizer) and the K-Pro. To convert a standard ECU to K-Pro status, Hondata solders in a daughterboard. That can be done without immobilizer/key. And when you get the K-Pro back and load a calibration, the default is immobilizer off. Also, I think it is possible to load a calibration even when the K-Pro ECU is not in the car, which means it can be done without key/immobilizer.

Thanks for pointing this out!
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Old 05-13-2004, 03:47 PM   #9
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just wondering...can the k-pro be tuned for any compression? like from 11.0 to 11.5 or 12.0? it'll be nice if you guys can enlighten me on these things. so the k-pro is fully programmable huh?
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Old 05-13-2004, 03:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ayosaint
just wondering...can the k-pro be tuned for any compression? like from 11.0 to 11.5 or 12.0? it'll be nice if you guys can enlighten me on these things. so the k-pro is fully programmable huh?
Well, not FULLY fully. I am sure there are many aspects of the Honda ECU that the K-Pro software does not touch. But there is a lot that is programmable.

How all this relates to compression I am not sure, but I see no reason why you couldn't use the K-Pro to create a calibration for a higher compression engine.
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Old 05-13-2004, 06:53 PM   #11
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thanks
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:39 AM   #12
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I have JRSC-R and JRRH with test pipe. I also have K-Pro. Today I got a MIL or CEL.

PO420 Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold

That's the code I got from the KPro. I cleared it. I'm guessing this code is caused by the lack of a cat because of the JRRH. Is there a way to turn off the second O2 sensor so the MIL will not come back on because I don't have a cat?
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:35 PM   #13
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Question: So, in this day of $2.40-2.50/gallon premium gas (in NorCal, anyway), what effect does the Hondata reflash and/or the K-Pro have on fuel economy? Better or worse? What kind of numbers can one expect?
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:38 PM   #14
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Fuel economy

Conrad, you can add this to the FAQ

As long as you have a working o2 sensor and run in closed loop, fuel economy is pretty much invariant. Closed loop ensures the A/F ratio is close to 14.7:1 while at part throttle, so the only variables to tune are ignition and cam timing. Hondata did some testing last week on the dyno, changing ignition and cam timing, measuring the manifold vacuum to achieve a certain power at certain rpm (30 hp at 3500 rpm to simulate highway cruise). The maximum power (lowest manifold pressure) was at anywhere from 36-44 degrees of timing at part throttle, which matches the stock ignition maps fairly well. Maximum power for cam timing was between 10-20 degrees advance, which is slightly less than the typical stock setting of 30 degrees at cruise.

Typcially we see from zero to a couple of mpg inprovement over stock with a tuned ECU.
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Old 05-19-2004, 11:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondata
Conrad, you can add this to the FAQ

As long as you have a working o2 sensor and run in closed loop, fuel economy is pretty much invariant. Closed loop ensures the A/F ratio is close to 14.7:1 while at part throttle, so the only variables to tune are ignition and cam timing. Hondata did some testing last week on the dyno, changing ignition and cam timing, measuring the manifold vacuum to achieve a certain power at certain rpm (30 hp at 3500 rpm to simulate highway cruise). The maximum power (lowest manifold pressure) was at anywhere from 36-44 degrees of timing at part throttle, which matches the stock ignition maps fairly well. Maximum power for cam timing was between 10-20 degrees advance, which is slightly less than the typical stock setting of 30 degrees at cruise.

Typcially we see from zero to a couple of mpg inprovement over stock with a tuned ECU.
I added it to the FAQ.

My own experience has been that neither Hondata 4 nor the K-Pro has affected my gas mileage. Here the usual caveat: If you install a Hondata product and then go tearing down the road, racing the car every chance you get, your mileage WILL get worse, but not because of Hondata. :-)
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:13 PM   #16
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Fuel Economy/ AEM V2 & Hondata

Quote:
Originally Posted by conradb212
I added it to the FAQ.

My own experience has been that neither Hondata 4 nor the K-Pro has affected my gas mileage. Here the usual caveat: If you install a Hondata product and then go tearing down the road, racing the car every chance you get, your mileage WILL get worse, but not because of Hondata. :-)
Cool, thanks.

For the AEM V2, with it's so called sound-charged induction system, is it better to use the standard reflash or to get the K-Pro and try to match the VTEC threshold with the sweet spot of the intake?

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Old Timer
Cool, thanks.

For the AEM V2, with it's so called sound-charged induction system, is it better to use the standard reflash or to get the K-Pro and try to match the VTEC threshold with the sweet spot of the intake?

Thanks
The reflash seems to work fine with the V2. However, it goes without saying that a programmable system will always be better able to FULLY accommodate and optimize specific modifications.
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:56 PM   #18
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What does it mean when I have a MIL with the description of "Intake Manifold Runner Control Low Voltage"?

Last edited by i VieTEC; 05-20-2004 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 05-20-2004, 11:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i VieTEC
What does it mean when I have a MIL with the description of "Intake Manifold Runner Control Low Voltage"?
It's because the JRSC manifold has no secondary intake runners.

1. Update KManager to 1.0.13
2. Load your calibration.
3. Make sure in Parameters 'disable secondary intake runners' is checked.
4. Upload to ECU.
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:03 AM   #20
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Thank you very much
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Old 05-23-2004, 04:39 PM   #21
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Will a CEL light be thrown if i have a testpipe, im ordering my k-pro tomorrow and want to just know every bit i can before i do so...and also the base map that is made for 550cc injectors, how precise is that?...and also what if i have a walbro intank fuel pump, and a fuel return line?...thanks
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Old 05-23-2004, 05:31 PM   #22
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You will throw a CEL with a test pipe, but you can turn off the O2 sensor with the K-Pro to get rid of it.

As for how precise the 550 map is, my guess would be it's pretty good, but you'll have to use it as a starting point and customize for your engine from there.

Peace

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Old 05-23-2004, 08:19 PM   #23
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two questions, will there ever be a program for apple users
which will work better on my base with V2/toda RH/type S E, a new reflash or k-pro.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inprogress2
Will a CEL light be thrown if i have a testpipe, im ordering my k-pro tomorrow and want to just know every bit i can before i do so...and also the base map that is made for 550cc injectors, how precise is that?...and also what if i have a walbro intank fuel pump, and a fuel return line?...thanks
Like WhiZ said, there will be a CEL because with the test pipe you don't have a secondary oxygen sensor. You can turn that CEL off with the K-Pro (or use a sim, which I never think it a good idea).

The 550cc map is a starting point, like all other K-Pro maps. You'll want to load it and run it and see what the car does. Do some datalogs to record knocking (if any) and determine whether you're running rich or lean. You can then make adjustments.

Unfortunately, I can't answer the intank fuel pump question.
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Old 05-28-2004, 03:30 PM   #25
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will the hondata prgm #4 work well with an aem sri? I know it's optimized for a cai.. will it be ok with a sri
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