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Bad News: "new" F2 type II coilovers

5K views 35 replies 15 participants last post by  coredump 
#1 · (Edited)
i have some bad news for you guys about F2's new coilovers. it seems Function&Form is releasing an "improve" set of their type I and type II coilovers. please note i am just sharing my discovery, and that my words should be taken with a grain of salt.

you can read the full blog here. i only quoted a portion of the article i would like to point out.
http://f2autolife.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-type-i-type-ii-speaks.html

------------------------------------------------------------
The New Type I & Type II Speaks.........




The current Type II coil-over is a modified and retooled version of the older Type II models. The new and improved Type II coil-over is a complete coil-over with a fully threaded shock body. Through extensive research and development, Function & Form Autolife has enhanced an already largely successful product. While the previous design was very popular, the new Type II coil-over has added features that serious car enthusiasts will find to be irreplaceable.

Added Features:
-one year warranty
-32 levels of dampening adjustments
-dampening adjustments made with a knob that “clicks” at each level setting
-steel construction of the lower mounts for maximum strength
-adjustable camber plates (application dependent)
-adjustable pillow ball mounts (application dependent)
-adjustable ride height from bottom mount allowing driver to retain full shock travel while -- lowering the car
-special oil lubrication able to withstand weather conditions from -40° C to 200° C
-dual tube shock design for maximum ride comfort
-wireless dampening adjuster (Wi-damp) available for most applications
-50 mm McPherson strut piston
-43 mm Double wishbone piston
-Shock dyno chart available
--------------------------------------------------------------------

if you look at the new type II's specs, you will notice several things that should be catching your attention.


-32 levels of dampening
-audible clicks
-steel construction


these are not coincidental because Megan Racing and Apexi N1 type ExV have these same features on their coilovers. the current type II's were made with 6061 T6 aluminum and had 18 levels of dampening (they also had the audible clicks). if you look at the pictures above, the new type II are also painted. the current ones are zinc electroplated with a shiny, red, metallic finish.


unfortunately, these clues are really pointing towards the idea that Function&Form are shifting their coilovers production to overseas. the company that makes and supplies coilovers to the earlier two mentioned is a Taiwanese company, Bor-Chuann.

http://www.bcec.com.tw/

i will have to say that if there is any truth to this matter, it would probably be wise to those who are looking to buy Function&Form's coilovers should do so now.
 
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#2 ·
oh, and for another news: Function&Form have in the works their type III coilovers.

http://f2autolife.blogspot.com/2007/10/type-3-suspension-rumors.html

TYPE 3 Suspension Rumors..............

........Who, what, when, where, and why. Well there has been alot of questions about this, and hear say. So i will share what i can share about the new suspension.

* Yes, we are working on a new suspension right now dubbed as the "TYPE III" but can change upon release
* Will they be external reseviors? Maybe, Maybe not. But they will be geared towards track and competition use.
* No they won't replace the TYPE II.
* We will pick up where the TYPE II left off, with this coil-overs.
* Can we use your car for testing? Thanks for the offer, but we will carefully select our testing team when the time comes.
* Release Date? Who knows, but we are aiming for first quarter of 2008. It could be pushed back for more testing and fitting. We want to really cover every attention to detail.

Thats all i can tell you. As i get solid updates and pictures i will post them up. So stay tuned. As we have alot of stuff up our sleeve for 2008. You will want to tune in for sure.
Posted by Pworld at 11:42 AM
 
#3 ·
interesting. thanks for posting.
 
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#4 ·
i have some bad news for you guys about F2's new coilovers. it seems Function&Form is releasing an "improve" set of their type I and type II coilovers. please note i am just sharing my discovery, and that my words should be taken with a grain of salt.

you can read the full blog here. i only quoted a portion of the article i would like to point out.
http://f2autolife.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-type-i-type-ii-speaks.html

------------------------------------------------------------
The New Type I & Type II Speaks.........





--------------------------------------------------------------------

if you look at the new type II's specs, you will notice several things that should be catching your attention.


-32 levels of dampening
-audible clicks
-steel construction


these are not coincidental because Megan Racing and Apexi N1 type ExV have these same features on their coilovers. the current type II's were made with 6061 T6 aluminum and had 18 levels of dampening (they also had the audible clicks). if you look at the pictures above, the new type II are also painted. the current ones are zinc electroplated with a shiny, red, metallic finish.


unfortunately, these clues are really pointing towards the idea that Function&Form are shifting their coilovers production to overseas. the company that makes and supplies coilovers to the earlier two mentioned is a Taiwanese company, Bor-Chuann.

http://www.bcec.com.tw/

i will have to say that if there is any truth to this matter, it would probably be wise to those who are looking to buy Function&Form's coilovers should do so now.

I guess I'm glad that i got the type 2s version 1.
 
#9 · (Edited)
i cannot say for sure, but you'll have to ask the seller if you're buying the earlier type II coilovers. no one should be jumping to conclusions whether or not the version 2 type II coilovers are going to be bad or not as we haven't even gotten our hands to try them. hell, i wouldn't be surprised if F2 were already made overseas to begin with since they're very low priced to begin with. you'll just have to go by specs and coat/paint finish at the moment when choosing.
 
#10 ·
i got a response on the blog page: http://f2autolife.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-type-i-type-ii-speaks.html

Me:
utter garbage. you guys shifted production overseas to Bor-Chuann in Taiwan. 32 dampening levels, steel construction, and audible clicks, that sounds like Megan Racing and Apexi N1 type ExV coilovers.

shame that you guys at Function & Form went the cheap route. those original type II coilovers were awesome to begin with. now, you guys are made of fail.
pworld:
bong..
We have done street tests between the older Type II and new Type II on several cars and we are happy with the improved stroke range, and compression characteristics. It feels much more stable and predictable than previous versions. And some of the testing was on clients cars with a non biased opinion. We also hope to do some testing back to back at button willow in a week or two. I will make sure we blog that.

Allen...
I usually dont respond to these comments on the forum, but when its on my own territory i must correct some things.

I will put up $1000 of my own personal money if you can find any proof or evidence or truth that this suspension , let alone any version of our products were ever made by B-C or the same manufacture of Megan, or Apexi, or that this product is not an improvement over our previous version. Better yet, i will let you ride on a car that we test fitted this product on that had megan coil-overs and you can compare the two back to back and decide for yourself. And last option, i will bring 2 G35's to the shop. One with the Older Type II and one with the new Type II, let you ride in both of them, then you tell me which is better.

All im saying is, dont make bold statements unless you can put your money on it. I know i can.

*customer service with a smile*

Now lets get back to the positivity, and good times!!!

March 19, 2008 5:18 PM


i responded back. lets see what they have to say.

me:
bold statement, eh? look at Bor-Chuann's website with their specs on their coilovers.

http://www.bcec.com.tw/

look at megan racing and their specs on their coilovers.

http://meganracing.com/products/product_page.asp?catid=125

and look at apexi and their N1 type ExV

http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_suspension_detail.asp?id=221&pageNum=1

perhaps your vers. 2 type II are better than the first gen.

however, the 32 level dampening, steel material construction, audible click, and even the change from zinc electroplating to red paint coating would suggest your new type II coilovers are made by Bor Chuann.

coincidental, perhaps? ill leave this for others to decide.
 
#12 ·
Proof is in the pudding.....if he says ride both sets and one rides better who the hell cares. I for one love so far my version 1 of the type2s.

I haven't had any, NONE, no popping since day 2. I had some on day 1 but probably b/c break in.

On softest settings all the way around, I have a 2" rear and 1.75" front.....it rides the same as stock and sometimes better depending on what you feel is better. I don't bounce around either. The proof in my pudding came when my fiance, and her mother didn't complain about the ride when i drove them around

When that mother in law says its ok, you better bet your ass it was riding smooth ROFL.
 
#17 · (Edited)
got a response:

Pworld said...

Allen....

Why are you trying to convince me that this product is made by Bor cHaun or whatever? I dont even know who makes there stuff there. I have heard this company or that company but we dont care. Thats there business. Like i said if you can prove it, not on a website comparing facts. You have not seen the product in person, rode on it, seen anything more than what you are given and your making these kind of crazy statements?

Once again, we have made improvements for us to bring out a better version of our Type II, as much as you want them to be made by BC...lol, sorry they arent and never will be. You just have to accept that sir. Why would we downgrade a good product? Thats not smart is it? Once again how can you knock a product you have not seen in person, or have any feedback from? So with that said im done with you. If you dont like the changes, dont visit our blog, dont by our product, thats your right as a consumer. But respect that we are not who you think. If you feel otherwise you can call our office 626-407-0015 ask for Preston, and i will be happy to clear up your large misconception, without any public embarassment to you. The offer is on the table, that makes 2 of them. Take one of them or leave it alone please.

Thank You.

Phil...
Sorry that you have let a few stray statements scare you, but no our products are not from bor chaun, feel free to contact them im sure they will tell you that. Im sure Apexi and Megan are great companies, but like i said i have had customers and dealers who have those products and sale those products, ride on our old and new type II and not switch back to there old set ups. So i doubt there the same, and those people can tell you its definately not the same manufacture.

There are no old Type II's in production. If speedfiend has sold those to you, thats an error on there part, as they know they are not available. Sorry for your inconvience.

I want to keep this blog positive, people are entitled to there opinions. I just ask that people respect our area, as we try to respect all of our customers, potential customers, and other companies in this industry. I dont mind people debating or speaking there opinion on facts, but i will not tolerate people creating false information. There are honest and straight up business people here. This industry has alot of shadyness and misleading companies. We are consumers just like you and i try to remember that when being a business person. So when i tell you my product is not made somewhere ITS NOT MADE THERE! if i tell you i have no association with somebody I HAVE NO ASSOCIATION!!! Its not that difficult to understand. You cant tell me how my product is made, how it is engineered, or how our company is ran. Only 4 people can do that, and we are here everyday busting our tails!

Now there are many companies that will b.s. you and do whatever it takes to get a quick dollar and get out. I will not say any names, and alot of those companies are releasing products or coil-overs to saturate the market, take companies like us out with a cheaper product and not care. IF we wanted to do that im sure we could, but we are working to improve our products, our service, our brand, and your experience. We have been in business going on 3 years and like any other business we learn as we grow. But we pride ourselves on being genuine about what we do.
looks like ill be calling their office tomorrow. if their reply is vague about their coilover suppliers or manufacturers, i will call Bor-Chuann at Taiwan if need be.
 
#25 ·
got a response:



looks like ill be calling their office tomorrow. if their reply is vague about their coilover suppliers or manufacturers, i will call Bor-Chuann at Taiwan if need be.
Wow I've never seen anyone this anal about getting to the bottom of something that is still up in the air. It's actually pretty sad. Yes the Older versions are great, will the new ones also be? Personally we don't know till we've tried them.

So what if the coilovers are similar, they all work the same. So if it had 31 settings or 33 settings, would they still be questionable as to who makes them or a copy of someone else? Probably not. We just have to play it as we see it. I personally have the Type-II's and I love them. But as soon as the new versions hit, I'm already getting my pennies together so that I can get them. Some companies don't just throw random shit out for themselves while trying to make a solid name. F2's product is really good and prefered, as far as I can tell on here and other forums.

In the meantime my buddy over at Speedfiends has marked them as out of stock. There was a miscommunication somewhere, but has been fixed and customers have been e-mailed. But he did say that some wanted to go for the new ones.

Just my thought on this....
 
#23 · (Edited)
I emailed Bor Chuann before I called up Function & Form Autolife. this is what they have to say.

Dear Bor-Chuann,

does your company supply coilovers to Function and Form Autolife?

http://www.f2autolife.com/storefront/

Picture of F2 coilovers


Function and Form Autolife
211 S. Raymond Ave.
Alhambra, CA 91801
(626) 407-0015 Phone (sales, product support)
(626) 282-0985 Phone (Wholesale, Dealer Inquiries)
(626) 407-0014 Fax


thanks,
-Allen
Dear Mr. Andy XXXX,

Thanks for your email.

We do not supply coilovers to Function and Form Autolife, though the color scheme is similar to ours. We are guessing they are probably made by D2, but it is just a guess. We can not make sure 100%.

Please stop passing the wrong information on the Internet, which may cause damages to our company and reputation.

We deeply appreciate your understanding.

Best Regards,
Kyle
Taiwan Bor-Chuann Enterprise Co., Ltd.
Tel:886-4-23399693 Fax:886-4-23399193
http://www.bcec.com.tw
Email: bor.chuann@msa.hinet.net
Email: bc@bcec.com.tw
No. 34-9 Sihde S. Rd., Wufong Township,
Taichung County, Taiwan
edit note: had to edit out my last name. :shady:
 
#24 ·
just called FF

I emailed Bor Chuann before I called up Function & Form Autolife. this is what they have to say.





edit note: had to edit out my last name. :shady:


i just got off the phone with function and form.... they said that they have never delt with with B.C. and that none of their parts are BC they are assembled in china, and sent to the US..... from what the tech told me... he said that the dampeners are made at the same factory that he beleives supplies cusco... whether cusco gets its dampeners from this factory is a different story.... he said that the name of that company is confidential... big suprize...

they also said that the reason why they changed the finish on the coilovers is because you cant annodize steel (im not sure about that sounds right) but their new type 2's are powdercoated..... with a powdercoat clear protectant over it... they also said they will be realeasing a electronic dampening controller, this controller will not be avialible on the older type 2's..... the new type 2 price point should be around 1000, but he said they are meant to compeate with the Tein flex's...

i cant get a hold of the company that i ordered my stuff from (speedfeinds.com) FF said that they should know not to sell the older type 2's because they cant order them anymore they dont make them.... so why that website has pictures of stuff they cant get i dont know.???? i better get a refund or the older type 2's because im not sure if i want to wait, and or pay more money for something....:firemad::firemad:

he also said hes going to a show in PA with some cars that have that suspension.. he also said he will be posting more pictures and info on their blog page... so look for that...
 
#27 ·
Their stock spring rates are a joke anyway when you look at the motion ratios on our suspension.......they should post up some shock dynos that could be tested by others if they wanted any rep as far as being a "preformance damper"....jmo
 
#31 · (Edited)
i really wonder who their manufacturer is.. as they did state over the phone to me that it was coming from overseas (taiwan)... i'm trying to get to the bottom of my situation as their coilovers blew in a matter of 7k miles... and i'm tryin to get an overhaul and willin to pay for it and i still havent gotten that done and its been 2-3 months.. they keep sayin different stories everytime i speak to them... one of their reps was tryna take my old blown coils for some brand new type 2 and i have to add 550 on my part.... i know their givin me the run around... if u some how find out who their manufacturer is, lemme know... and good lookin on the post
 
#32 · (Edited)
congratulations on your first test, pworld / function&form. you guys have successfully defended yourselves from one person's/people's arising concerns about your new type II coilovers.

i would like to clarify my intentions for the stringent scrutiny on your blog. as already stated, i have noticed alarming similiarities in these new type II that would suggest that their origins may have come from Bor Chuann. this has been an upsetting discovery that i had wanted to point out to others and believe they had a right in knowing what they might be getting themselves into buying.

there were two reasons concerning your new type II coilovers:

1. people do not like seeing change in products that they already favor highly, unless it is for the better. while upgrading an already awesome coilover to a even better design, we have to ask ourselves:

-will the new ones live up to our expectations in performance compared to the old ones?
-are they just as high quality and reliable?

as you can see, those similarities found on your coilovers to Megan Racing's and Apexi's would have us believe you have outsourced your production to taiwan. consumers would not be happy about getting "generic" parts. there's a generally rule of thumb about picking two out of three: cheap, reliable, fast.

2. i must admit i like what i have heard about F2 autolife so far as to now and that you guys have built a solid, fresh reputation. however, F2 is still a very young company and relative unknown to the majority of the modding scene. for that, people will be afraid in buying your products until your reputation is set in stone.

so you can see, my offensive tactics in questioning you guys was to invoke an response in how well you can back up your products, even if it meant making myself look like an angry, idiotic troll. while i do very much apologies for my behavior and actions, i will post one last reply on your blog to try to set things straight up from here.

i will say this again more specifically for emphasizes.

I, Allen, am sorry for any and all wrongful damages cause to you, Pworld / Preston, and F2 Autolife by my negative outcry. Now I ask of you, can you forgive me?

with that said and done, my pressing investigation comes to an end. i will be calling you guys sometimes this week for any last questions i have left. as much as the offer goes for the G35 test driving, i'll have to pass the offer since i live in the east coast... i would like to arrange a meeting though if my vacationing to california this spring or summer permits it.

you guys still have a long way to go. for your second test, we will be waiting for what those new type II's are capable of. :)
 
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