Chassis Reinforcement.... lets discuss

**SoloTeg** · 04-01-2008, 09:41 AM

I've begun to research my suspension overhaul, and I've noticed that reinforcing the chassis is not often talked about. Browsing through some websites I found a few items to help reinforce the chassis, but I'm hesitant to buy anything if I don't know everything about it... how it works, why it works, etc etc.

So lets hear what you all have done to your chassis to give it a stiffer and more rigid structure. Bars? braces? welding?

Temptazn_Mark · 04-01-2008, 10:06 AM

Um.. you could've searched the forums here..
We have lots of info on it.

Basically chassis reinforcement does nothing. Doesn't make your car handle better and it won't give you faster times at the track for any form of racing.

I would not recommend anybody to get them unless you are getting them for show purposes.
People like chassis braces like c-pillars, strut bars, etc. so much because you can show them off.. you can be like *point*, see I have this mod in this nice color.

Zzyzx · 04-01-2008, 11:18 AM

Chassis braces reduce chassis flex... flex in the chassis acts as a very large un-dampered spring. Makeing fine tuning of the suspension nearly impossible.

And thats the key element here... the "Fine tuning" of the suspension. Meaning you can get 90-95% out of the car with out bracing the chassis. But to get that last 5-10% you need to remove that last variable. And note that this is with driving the car at competition levels, ya know driving 10/10ths. Something thats nearly impossible on the street. So there is also the chance that a driver simply isn't skilled enough yet to get to that 90-95%.

So... as far as tuning, they have there place. will they make the car handle vastly different then before? No.

One opinion about their popularity. Tuning a cars handling for the street in most cases ends up being more about tuning the "feel" of the car rather then getting 10/10ths out of it. And in my opinion thats why all of these chases braces are so popular with the street tuners. Simply because many of them instantly alter the "feel" of the car. making it feel more solid. Which is fine and good, as it also tends to give those drivers more confidence to push the car. but don't fool your self in to thinking that any chassis brace is that Magic go fast part to fix all your handling problems.

**mustclime** · 04-01-2008, 11:32 AM

change out your bushings first.....lots of flex going on there.

JamesL · 04-01-2008, 01:04 PM

My opinion...

You can have all the braces you want and the car will never be as stiff as a competition vehicle with a roll cage/bar.

But, for street driving, who needs it to be? All that is extreme overkill unless you have a track vehicle, or a daily driver and are simply a masochist. But for the money you spend on front and rear strut tower bars, you are damn close to a nice Autopower 4 point bar.

Everyone love strut braces because, well let's face it, they look pretty. People can't see your camber plates and polyurethane bushings. But, hot damn!, is that a Mugen front strut brace?!?!

You get my drift.

If you have upgraded your rear sway bar to a larger diameter/higher rate bar, the "brace" that I suggest highly is a lower rear tie bar.

Highrev1 · 04-01-2008, 01:18 PM

Granted this is a Subaru, but I would expect similar results...

Nickcrsx · 04-01-2008, 01:23 PM

So basically, your say that its a waste of money.....As i expected.

**erik loza** · 04-01-2008, 01:26 PM

I actually prefer the car to move a little bit. Makes it more forgiving under hard cornering. Otherwise, it might slide. I am no expert, though.

Highrev1 · 04-01-2008, 01:31 PM

Point is for compitition chassis braces are important to allow you to get those last few tenths out of the car. For the street they instill more confidence in the cars capabilities, for better or for worse...They tend to cause the owner to overdrive the car cause they are more confident..

They don't change any roll couple distribution on the car, so really your not adjusting the cars handling with them..

Zzyzx · 04-01-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickcrsx

So basically, your say that its a waste of money.....As i expected.

I wouldn't say a waste, they just tend to have a very high Cost Vs performance gain ratio....

Highrev1 · 04-01-2008, 01:34 PM

Also a competition car is gonna have a full welded in cage which will improve chassis strength more than some bolt in adjustable bar.

Temptazn_Mark · 04-01-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highrev1

Granted this is a Subaru, but I would expect similar results...
http://www.members.aol.com/highrev1/Tiebars.jpg

Holy crap.. $850 for 4-hundredths of a second.. no thanks.

Mind you, I do have chassis bars though but I bought them for aesthetics.

**SoloTeg** · 04-01-2008, 05:59 PM

Interesting info. Even though I'll be tracking my car, I dont think I'll be seriously tracking it enough to need that small of a performance gain for that kind of money. I think working on the driver mod would be more worthwhile for me.

**bluej511** · 04-01-2008, 06:04 PM

temptazn if you read that they actually lost .04 seconds so they ran slower.

Strut bars dont do shit you might feel it but it doesnt improve anything. Wanna work on suspension then work on compression and rebound with different adjustments then tell me if you need strut bars.

So far from what i understand the only good suspension piece to get for the rsx is koni shocks. Coilovers dont have the dampening abilities of Konis. Personally ill be going with the koni shock/spring kit next.

Temptazn_Mark · 04-01-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluej511

temptazn if you read that they actually lost .04 seconds so they ran slower.

I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

lol but even better.. more of reason to NOT get strut bars.. added weight of strut bars slows you down.

**SoloTeg** · 04-01-2008, 10:41 PM

I have a cusco replica rear strut bar, but only because a friend practically gave it away

I plan on getting Buddy club RSD's. I've heard both sides to the Koni's vs. coilovers battle, and personally i think the RSDs come out on top, but thats just my opinion.

Temptazn_Mark · 04-01-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhSixTeg

I have a cusco replica rear strut bar, but only because a friend practically gave it away

I plan on getting Buddy club RSD's. I've heard both sides to the Koni's vs. coilovers battle, and personally i think the RSDs come out on top, but thats just my opinion.

For daily driving? Wow.. wayyy too stiff.

I hope you have some nice roads in your area.

lLLlclT · 04-01-2008, 11:07 PM

I realize strut bars don't do much really, but why did they choose to add one stock on a 05-06 type s and now the base? Can you feel the difference?

The otherside of this is; I thought you want the front of the car to be soft to add more traction to the front wheels, and wouldn't adding a front strut bar make it stiffer? I dont know lol

**ariasoli** · 04-01-2008, 11:14 PM

Well if the customer feels like the chassis is stiffer then they will feel like they are buying a true sports car.

**bluej511** · 04-02-2008, 06:17 AM

Strut bars are factory on all rsxs 02-06. They always have a chassis bar down by the power steering rack. Ive taken it off and driven with it i didn't feel a dam thing lol

babboon · 04-02-2008, 06:24 AM

then why would honda go through the trouble of making a much beefier front strut bar for the 05-06 rsxs?

Temptazn_Mark · 04-02-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babboon

then why would honda go through the trouble of making a much beefier front strut bar for the 05-06 rsxs?

Maybe 'cause they thought it'd help? Also, the car needed an "update" other than headlights/tailights. People aren't going to buy the newer version if they feel there is no change done to the vehicle other than a few cosmetics.

Also, just because Honda put it there doesn't mean its right.. it's like why did they use the McPhearson strut with only like +1 castor in the front for 02-04?

Who knows..

**bluej511** · 04-02-2008, 07:14 AM

Well they put a beefier bar because the rest of the chassis was beefened up i believe something like 30% stiffer or something BUT the 05-06 also weighs more then the 02-04

Temptazn_Mark · 04-02-2008, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluej511

Well they put a beefier bar because the rest of the chassis was beefened up i believe something like 30% stiffer or something BUT the 05-06 also weighs more then the 02-04

I don't believe that the beefier bar was put on because the rest of the chassis was improved.

If you already have a strong chassis that reduces the need for any addtional chassis braces/bars.

I believe that the beefing up of the strut bar was included in the "x" percentage that Honda claims for increased chassis rigidity.

**Unbr3akable** · 04-02-2008, 09:14 AM

I personally think strut bars are a huge waste of money, if anything I like having my front chassis flex. Like mustclime stated, I'd replace all the suspension bushings, way too forgiving.

Not trying to get off topic but I swapped my RSD plates Mark and went in for an alignment. +2.8 degrees right an left, nothing extreme but its better than stock

04-01-2008, 09:41 AM	#1
SoloTeg countdown to cone season Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: baltimore Posts: 121,006 iTrader: (45)	Chassis Reinforcement.... lets discuss I've begun to research my suspension overhaul, and I've noticed that reinforcing the chassis is not often talked about. Browsing through some websites I found a few items to help reinforce the chassis, but I'm hesitant to buy anything if I don't know everything about it... how it works, why it works, etc etc. So lets hear what you all have done to your chassis to give it a stiffer and more rigid structure. Bars? braces? welding?

04-01-2008, 10:06 AM	#2
Temptazn_Mark www.MarkLinRacing.com Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 9,368 iTrader: (1)	Um.. you could've searched the forums here.. We have lots of info on it. Basically chassis reinforcement does nothing. Doesn't make your car handle better and it won't give you faster times at the track for any form of racing. I would not recommend anybody to get them unless you are getting them for show purposes. People like chassis braces like c-pillars, strut bars, etc. so much because you can show them off.. you can be like point, see I have this mod in this nice color. __________________ Mark Lin Racing Pursuing the dream and life-long passion...

04-01-2008, 11:18 AM	#3
Zzyzx Late Apexer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 5,022 iTrader: (0)	Chassis braces reduce chassis flex... flex in the chassis acts as a very large un-dampered spring. Makeing fine tuning of the suspension nearly impossible. And thats the key element here... the "Fine tuning" of the suspension. Meaning you can get 90-95% out of the car with out bracing the chassis. But to get that last 5-10% you need to remove that last variable. And note that this is with driving the car at competition levels, ya know driving 10/10ths. Something thats nearly impossible on the street. So there is also the chance that a driver simply isn't skilled enough yet to get to that 90-95%. So... as far as tuning, they have there place. will they make the car handle vastly different then before? No. One opinion about their popularity. Tuning a cars handling for the street in most cases ends up being more about tuning the "feel" of the car rather then getting 10/10ths out of it. And in my opinion thats why all of these chases braces are so popular with the street tuners. Simply because many of them instantly alter the "feel" of the car. making it feel more solid. Which is fine and good, as it also tends to give those drivers more confidence to push the car. but don't fool your self in to thinking that any chassis brace is that Magic go fast part to fix all your handling problems. __________________ “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.” — Ed Howdershelt

04-01-2008, 11:32 AM	#4
mustclime ride hight nazi Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: fortreee nj Posts: 6,859 iTrader: (2)	change out your bushings first.....lots of flex going on there. __________________ RSX A-Spec suspension kit, DC5 tierod ends swaybars stock 25.5mm hollow ft, cusco 25mm solid r camber Hotchkis camber plates bushings energy suspension F/R, brase Progress in the rear, brakes Hawk hp+ R,willwood 12.2 bbk f, removed splash shields in front and a Quaife

04-01-2008, 06:04 PM	#14
bluej511 Name's Vic Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 508 MA Posts: 10,844 iTrader: (6)	temptazn if you read that they actually lost .04 seconds so they ran slower. Strut bars dont do shit you might feel it but it doesnt improve anything. Wanna work on suspension then work on compression and rebound with different adjustments then tell me if you need strut bars. So far from what i understand the only good suspension piece to get for the rsx is koni shocks. Coilovers dont have the dampening abilities of Konis. Personally ill be going with the koni shock/spring kit next. __________________ Canon Crew Member #3.MC crew #Slevin. Nutella Crew Member #1 (founder).Armenian crsx crew member #6 02 RSX-S 160k mi, 14.5 @97. 02 F4i 20k mi, stoopid fast.

04-01-2008, 01:04 PM	#5
JamesL EM2 Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,485 iTrader: (9)	My opinion... You can have all the braces you want and the car will never be as stiff as a competition vehicle with a roll cage/bar. But, for street driving, who needs it to be? All that is extreme overkill unless you have a track vehicle, or a daily driver and are simply a masochist. But for the money you spend on front and rear strut tower bars, you are damn close to a nice Autopower 4 point bar. Everyone love strut braces because, well let's face it, they look pretty. People can't see your camber plates and polyurethane bushings. But, hot damn!, is that a Mugen front strut brace?!?! You get my drift. If you have upgraded your rear sway bar to a larger diameter/higher rate bar, the "brace" that I suggest highly is a lower rear tie bar.

04-01-2008, 01:26 PM	#8
erik loza On the long road... Join Date: May 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,433 iTrader: (21)	I actually prefer the car to move a little bit. Makes it more forgiving under hard cornering. Otherwise, it might slide. I am no expert, though.

04-01-2008, 05:59 PM	#13
SoloTeg countdown to cone season Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: baltimore Posts: 121,006 iTrader: (45)	Interesting info. Even though I'll be tracking my car, I dont think I'll be seriously tracking it enough to need that small of a performance gain for that kind of money. I think working on the driver mod would be more worthwhile for me.

04-01-2008, 10:41 PM	#16
SoloTeg countdown to cone season Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: baltimore Posts: 121,006 iTrader: (45)	I have a cusco replica rear strut bar, but only because a friend practically gave it away I plan on getting Buddy club RSD's. I've heard both sides to the Koni's vs. coilovers battle, and personally i think the RSDs come out on top, but thats just my opinion.

04-01-2008, 11:07 PM	#18
lLLlclT Master Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,458 iTrader: (0)	I realize strut bars don't do much really, but why did they choose to add one stock on a 05-06 type s and now the base? Can you feel the difference? The otherside of this is; I thought you want the front of the car to be soft to add more traction to the front wheels, and wouldn't adding a front strut bar make it stiffer? I dont know lol __________________ My New Website Nikon D90 - Nikkor 16-85mm VR - Nikkor 55-200mm VR - Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 - (2)SB600

04-02-2008, 06:17 AM	#20
bluej511 Name's Vic Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 508 MA Posts: 10,844 iTrader: (6)	Strut bars are factory on all rsxs 02-06. They always have a chassis bar down by the power steering rack. Ive taken it off and driven with it i didn't feel a dam thing lol __________________ Canon Crew Member #3.MC crew #Slevin. Nutella Crew Member #1 (founder).Armenian crsx crew member #6 02 RSX-S 160k mi, 14.5 @97. 02 F4i 20k mi, stoopid fast.

04-02-2008, 06:24 AM	#21
babboon gimme a ***ana !!! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: hawaii Posts: 3,731 iTrader: (18)	then why would honda go through the trouble of making a much beefier front strut bar for the 05-06 rsxs? __________________ 1 MP = 0.332 HP 짬뽕 pride

04-02-2008, 07:14 AM	#23
bluej511 Name's Vic Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 508 MA Posts: 10,844 iTrader: (6)	Well they put a beefier bar because the rest of the chassis was beefened up i believe something like 30% stiffer or something BUT the 05-06 also weighs more then the 02-04 __________________ Canon Crew Member #3.MC crew #Slevin. Nutella Crew Member #1 (founder).Armenian crsx crew member #6 02 RSX-S 160k mi, 14.5 @97. 02 F4i 20k mi, stoopid fast.

04-02-2008, 09:14 AM	#25
Unbr3akable Slow in Fast out Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Columbia, MD Posts: 2,846 iTrader: (27)	I personally think strut bars are a huge waste of money, if anything I like having my front chassis flex. Like mustclime stated, I'd replace all the suspension bushings, way too forgiving. Not trying to get off topic but I swapped my RSD plates Mark and went in for an alignment. +2.8 degrees right an left, nothing extreme but its better than stock __________________ "He who follows another is always behind." Engineering > * Last edited by Unbr3akable; 04-02-2008 at 09:18 AM.