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Old 08-29-2015, 07:46 AM   #101
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86 owner! Are you on ft86 as well?

For the longest time I was just an ignorant Honda elitist and disliked toyota just cuz. So when Scion came out I scoffed at their attempt to appeal to the younger crowd. Years later I could really care less. To each their own.

Which FRS did you get?
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:10 AM   #102
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^ Yes I am, same user name.

I got the Monogram FR-S, so essentially the GT86. There's a link to my build in my signature.

Like I said, branding doesn't really matter to me, but I must say there are as many Scion haters as there are Honda haters lol
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:16 AM   #103
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Oh nice, yeah we essentially have the same car then, inside and out. Probably the closest 2 out of the entire 86 line

I looked at it briefly in here after I asked lol. Yours kinda makes me want some rivet pieces lol.
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:39 AM   #104
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Old 08-29-2015, 12:02 PM   #105
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:06 PM   #106
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Where are the 30K prices coming from?

2016 FRS is 26,100 on Scion's website.
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:10 PM   #107
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Base model. Idk if they have any fancy models planned for 2016. I'm sure they do. They have like 5-10 special variants now.
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:26 PM   #108
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From my count, just 1 special model and you don't really get anything performance-wise worth getting, just looks.

Honda did the same thing with the Mugen Si for 30K
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Old 08-29-2015, 09:50 PM   #109
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I can think of three of the top of my head.
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:01 PM   #110
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^ Yup, 3 special editions for the FR-S : 10 Series, Monogram, RS1.0 (TRD)

Those ones just matched the price of a BRZ, I think
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:21 PM   #111
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They were offered in 3 different years
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:27 PM   #112
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So technically 4 including the base so I exaggerated in any case. Either way, you have the answer to your question.
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:29 PM   #113
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The BRZ premium is cheap too. Forget the differences. But yeah, there's nothing but bells and whistles separating the different models.
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:34 PM   #114
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Agreed.

People were wondering if 30K was worth it for one but 25-26 new I think is worth it...Used for less than 20K

The Type S was around the same price when new, 26K wasn't it?
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Old 08-29-2015, 10:42 PM   #115
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Something like that. The way I liked to look at it when thinking about buying an 86 was that to scale it was basically buying the same niche of vehicle but trying rwd for a change. Overly simplified but yeah, cheap(ish) "sports car".

On paper, stock for stock, the type s and 86 make nearly the same power to weight ratio. After driving the 86 though, it doesn't do as well at putting it down. The biggest disappointment lol. Doesn't respond as well to bolt ons either.

I was seriously considering getting another rsx to start fresh but newer, rwd, and 50/50 weight distribution hooked me.
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Old 08-29-2015, 11:34 PM   #116
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Something like that. The way I liked to look at it when thinking about buying an 86 was that to scale it was basically buying the same niche of vehicle but trying rwd for a change. Overly simplified but yeah, cheap(ish) "sports car".

On paper, stock for stock, the type s and 86 make nearly the same power to weight ratio. After driving the 86 though, it doesn't do as well at putting it down. The biggest disappointment lol. Doesn't respond as well to bolt ons either.

I was seriously considering getting another rsx to start fresh but newer, rwd, and 50/50 weight distribution hooked me.
Stock Vs stock a type s should walk away quite easily from a frs. Even a lightly modded frs will Prolly still lose. I hear ya on all ur other points. I'm comming from a 350whp ep3. After selling that and weighting what I wanted in my next vehicle and my budget I decided an s2000 was my best bet. It doesn't have all the fancy stuff an frs does but I think it's a pure drivers car. Honda put so much effort in perfecting the chasis and engine. It is a peice of automobile history and is already being called a future "classic car". It's a car I don't ever want to change what honda intended for it. I did minor boltons and a tune and have no other plans for engine mods. The joy of 9k revs is music to my ears.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:01 AM   #117
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Mod for mod and stock for stock, the DC5 is the faster car. We had a two day gymkhana event where a bunch of pro drivers came down to teach us some driving techniques and then pretty much proceeded to beat the crap out of our cars for the rest of the day.

My car ran a best of 1:00.xxx with a pro dude driving it, and he couldn't get the e-brake to work for the spin turn. Another pro dude driving a prepped Toyota 86 was five seconds slower. Sure, I make a lot more power than he does, but it doesn't matter really on a narrow course like that.

With all that said, the DC5 chassis is like 10 years old at best, so if you're someone that wants a cheap, sporty, new car but doesn't need a lot of space then the FR-S/BR-Z is the way to go. I would probably wait a bit to buy one though as Toyota has been wanting to move the 86 away from the Subaru which means putting a Toyota engine in the car. It will definitely be interesting to see what Toyota does with the car in the next few years.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:25 AM   #118
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You'd have to get into set ups before really justifying the 5 second difference as a tally of the faster car. Tires, suspension, etc. The 86 handles world's better and is set up to handle better in every respect. It has every advantage to do so.

Some say the road response in the steering is better in the rsx but as far as weight distribution and center of gravity the 86 chassis is clearly better suited for turning.

But I definitely agree with you as far as mod for mod and stock for stock. The rsx is definitely the better car in that respect. I'm new to rwd but maybe the 86 just fails to get the power through transmission?


I was searching for an s2k for months before deciding it wasn't the fit for me. Literally. I'm nearly 6'4" and there's no way I'd enjoy driving it on a daily basis. I got a chance to sit passenger in a boosted 450hp cr edition and the only thing that resonated in my memory was

I later sat in the driver seat of one just for a test fit and realized my knees didn't fit under the steering wheel and my head doesn't fit (forget helmet room) with the top up. Driving with the top up I'd have to really get low to see stop lights and the rear view mirror blocked my vision to everything to the right out of the windshield.

I looked into ways to overcome that for about a month and when I eventually decided i didnt want to spend 2k on fitting in the car I would have just bought, I went and sat in a brz. It was slow but I fit very well and we usually find workarounds for cars being slow when stock.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:30 AM   #119
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Interesting about the about weaning off subaru as a counterpart.

I can't say I've seen the sales numbers but I'm sure they've sold enough of the subaru variant to deter separation.

I've heard Subaru was only allowed to sell 1 brz for every 10 frs sold. Idk if that's true or not but if so, that definitely makes it look like toyota is wearing the pants there. I spose they could do whatever they please if they hold the majority rights to it.

That's just a rumor I've come across. There's a lot of rumors floating around these cars though lol
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:52 AM   #120
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You'd have to get into set ups before really justifying the 5 second difference as a tally of the faster car. Tires, suspension, etc. The 86 handles world's better and is set up to handle better in every respect. It has every advantage to do so.

Some say the road response in the steering is better in the rsx but as far as weight distribution and center of gravity the 86 chassis is clearly better suited for turning.

But I definitely agree with you as far as mod for mod and stock for stock. The rsx is definitely the better car in that respect. I'm new to rwd but maybe the 86 just fails to get the power through transmission?


I was searching for an s2k for months before deciding it wasn't the fit for me. Literally. I'm nearly 6'4" and there's no way I'd enjoy driving it on a daily basis. I got a chance to sit passenger in a boosted 450hp cr edition and the only thing that resonated in my memory was

I later sat in the driver seat of one just for a test fit and realized my knees didn't fit under the steering wheel and my head doesn't fit (forget helmet room) with the top up. Driving with the top up I'd have to really get low to see stop lights and the rear view mirror blocked my vision to everything to the right out of the windshield.

I looked into ways to overcome that for about a month and when I eventually decided i didnt want to spend 2k on fitting in the car I would have just bought, I went and sat in a brz. It was slow but I fit very well and we usually find workarounds for cars being slow when stock.
Comfort is obviously a top priority. Totally understand why u didn't buy an s2k. It sux because it's a truly amazing machine. I'm actually planning on buying another one in a few years .
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Old 08-30-2015, 01:31 AM   #121
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Maybe someday I can afford to buy one strictly for toy car use lol.

Put the top down and with no need to look at street lights on the track

I almost tried to buy one in Nevada. What a ride home that'd have been back to MN haha
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Old 08-30-2015, 02:04 AM   #122
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Hell yea. I wouldn't own one regardless for dd though. That would not be fun during rain or snow lol
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Old 08-30-2015, 04:16 AM   #123
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RWD will definitely have more drivetrain loss vs a FWD car, but even if it didn't, the K20 is still the better engine and currently has more potential responding to mods versus the FA20 in the 86.

But the 86 is a great car and I'm excited to be owning one soon.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:52 PM   #124
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That's just if you consider the retroactive life of the K20. In a few years, more and more companies will make better and better bolt ons and mods for the FA20.

Unfortunately, the inherent boxer design makes it a bit of a pain in the ass to work on, but as an engine, it has quite a bit of potential.

Even now we are seeing Superchargers and Turbos giving quite a decent power boost. Not to mention ECU tunes and running E85 does wonders for the FA20.

Now yes I know, there is a "torque dip" in the FA20 and there isn't one on the K20, but let's be real, that's because there isn't any torque to dip.

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Old 08-31-2015, 02:32 PM   #125
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Had alot of time behind the wheel of FRS or BRZ. Driving position is close to perfect in a way maybe even slightly better than the s2000.

However I don't think comparing the Rsx-S to a FR-S is fair, more like FRS/BRZ Vs S2000

Even now after owning an s2000 for a few months, still miss the K20A2 or K20A..
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