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Old 02-20-2008, 10:12 AM   #1
stwatson
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Water/Methanol Injection Supercharged Q/A

Alright I am going to put ALL of the information on one central page for every to have easy access to the information.

****Why Methanol?****

For those of you wondering what all the talk is about methanol injection well heres your answer (or the best I can give). Methanol is a higher octane compound than gasoline which is an easy way of saying it is a slower burning chemical which aids in the reduction of knock. Similar to gasoline methanol is VERY flammable so it is dangerous to keep in a pure form in your car. Due to this, it is very common (and actually recommended) to mix the methanol with distilled water. Doing so will lower the methanol's ability to vaporize in your car and explode (which is a good thing) ON TOP of offering a very useful cooling source. For those of us with superchargers and no cooling, methanol has been used as early as 9psi to prevent knock during some hard driving on a hot day (for those of you with aftercoolers, I'll get to that later).

Another benefit to using methanol injection is the "steam cleaning" it will do to your manifold and motor. As the water vaporizes into steam (this is how it removes heat from combustion), the steam will remove carbon build up on various parts it touches. After a year of using methanol, I removed the blower and noticed that all of the carbon buildup on the intake manifold had been either removed or partially cleaned.

So in other words, methanol is used in collaboration with distilled water to slow the burn of combustion, cool the combustion process in order to prevent knock and increase engine safety, open up the possibility for more power, and clean off some carbon debris as an added bonus.

Here is a post by Razathorn about Methanol which pretty much sums it all up...

As one of (if not the, I don't really recall for sure) the first supercharged guys to do water/methanol a few years back, my setup has basically "just worked" for a long while now. Now that I've moved to 11 pounds w/ 06 tsx cam in 100+ degree heat, I find myself needing to make adjustments to keep the detonation fairy and her pings of doom from claiming my 75k oem motor. For a while, off and on, I've dropped little nuggets of explanation in chat threads and random threads -- but I haven't really created a technical resource for those who really want hard info on what is going on behind the scene. This thread aims to fill that void, confuse some of you, and enlighten (hopefully) the rest of you that want to understand things better. If you get confused, ASK questions -- you won't be the only one, and hopefully we can turn this thread into something really useful for others.

First, before we start, we need to get vocabulary out of the way. Without knowing the following terms, you won't get very far here.

* Air/Fuel Ratio
An air/fuel ratio describes how many parts of air and fuel are present during combustion.
* Stoich
Stoich comes from stoichiometry. Stoich, for our purposes, describes the condition where combustion of the air/fuel mixture leaves no remaining oxygen or fuel. I sometimes refer to it as perfect combustion, but don't confuse that with being what you should want at all engine operating conditions.
* Stoich Point
A ratio that defines how many parts fuel to oxygen you need for stoich mixture. The Stoich point of gasoline is 14.7:1, or 14.7 parts oxygen to one part fuel. The stoich point of methanol is 6.4:1.
* Lambda
Loosely defined for our goals, it describes, via a percentage, how much fuel or oxygen was needed for stoich combustion. A lambda value of 1 is stoich. A lambda value of .85 means 85% of your fuel was burned, and 15% of it was left over. A lambda value of 1.15 means 15% of your oxygen was not used, and 85% of it was.
* Lean/Rich
Lean describes a condition when too little fuel is present in your combustion event to be stoich. Rich describes a condition when too much fuel is present in your combustion event to be stoich. A rich mixture has a lambda less than 1.0, a lean mixture has a lambda greater than 1.0. Rich/lean is also used to describe having too much or too little fuel in relation to what is desired, not just in relation to stoich. For instance, even though 14.7:1 is stoich for gasoline combustion, and by definition is not lean, it is far too lean for wide open throttle to be safe, and should be richer.
* Methanol
Methanol is a simple alcohol with a stoich point of 6.4:1. It melts/freezes at -98C and has an octane rating of around 120. It has a relatively low flash point, so mixing with water, in addition to adding more cooling benefit to your water/methanol mixture, adds safety by increasing its flash point.
* Knock
An engine noise -- not good. Knock generally falls into two categories: spark knock (detonation) and rod knock (or other physical problem with the motor that makes you tear it down).
* Detonation
Detonation is far less harmful than it sounds, but leads to things more dastardly such as pre-ignition or engine damage if left unchecked, especially if the detonation is severe or the engine is already operating near it's physical limits. Detonation is an event that happens AFTER normal ignition of the compressed air/fuel ratio as the cylinder is moving down on the power stroke. Detonation occurs when the air/fuel mixture transitions from burning (granted, very fast) to exploding (hence the word detonation). Ideally, the air/fuel mixture should burn across the time when the piston is moving down on the power stroke. If for some reason the mixture cannot sustain normal combustion under the heat/pressure it is being exposed to, and explodes, this is called detonation. It delivers a large amount of force to the piston very quickly for a very short period of time producing an audible sound referred to as a "ping", and hence "pinging" is another term to describe a motor that is detonating. It heats up the combustion chamber quickly. Normally, when you encounter detonation, it is near the end of the normal combustion event. This is especially true for detonation you encounter from running too much ignition timing -- you can literally think of this as the burn beating the piston. Denser mixtures burn faster -- that's why more boost dictates less ignition timing. Detonation can be caused by too much ignition timing, too little octane, too hot of intake temperatures, or too lean of a mixture.
* Pre-Ignition
Pre-ignition almost always leads to detonation, but... pre-ignition also has a terrible habit of destroying motors. Pre-ignition is when the air/fuel mixture is ignited BEFORE the normal ignition point (dictated by ignition timing) by means other than the spark plug firing. Pre-ignition causes the piston to compress an expanding mixture, which causes a huge strain over a long period of time compared to detonation (which happens quickly and is over). The mixture usually detonates when pre-ignited. Potential ignition sources could be an overly hot combustion chamber, glowing carbon embers, a glowing spark plug, and any other residual heat in the combustion chamber that shouldn't be there. The problem with pre-ignition is you simply don't know if the detonation you are hearing is from pre-ignition until your motor blows. Rest assured, most detonation encountered is not from pre-ignition -- however, if your motor detonates enough, it could raise the combustion chambers so much that your engine pre-ignites, which tends to put the piston on the ground, and we all know that isn't where it goes, now is it! That is why you address detonation, in addition to the fact that severe detonation can damage the motor as well.
* Octane
Octane is a rating used to describe a fuels resistance to detonation. It is also a compound, but we don't care about that.
* Ignition Timing
The point at which the spark plug fires before top dead center on the compression stroke to ignite the air/fuel mixture. More ignition means you ignite the mixture sooner. The idea is to expose the power stroke (piston moving down) to as much of the force of combustion as possible while not detonating and not compressing an expanding mixture by starting the burn too soon. Ideally, you start the burn while still compressing the mixture because it takes some time to burn. If you have a high enough octane fuel, you can actually run too much ignition timing and compress an expanding mixture -- this puts enormous stress on your rods and rod bearings and is akin to mini pre-ignition. You CAN over-advance the motor with water/methanol. Don't advance ignition timing without being on the dyno to see if it adds more power. If it doesn't add power, take it out, it's just adding stress. Ideally, you should be just below peak power ignition for a long lasting boosted motor tune.
* Latent Heat
Latent heat, for our purposes, describes the amount of heat absorbed by a liquid as it changes matter states to a gas when vaporized.


Believe it or not, this is the actual start of this post. Don't like it? Too bad! Man up!


Why do we run rich?
This is something many folks take for granted -- you run rich, or fuel enriched, under load. More so for boost, less for n/a, but not at all for cruise. Why? It's simple. We don't want our motors to blow up. Why would it blow up? Because it gets hot in there damn it! Running rich means there is extra fuel left over that didn't get burned. This fuel absorbs heat. This keeps the engine from being damaged. At cruise (in vacuum), the power produced by the engine is tiny -- you don't need to run richer than stoich to protect the motor, and catalytic converters need stoich combustion exhaust to work correctly.


How exactly does fuel cool the combustion event?
The unburned fuel is vaporized (evaporated) -- it changes from a liquid to a gas. This change in matter state, from a liquid to a gas, takes heat with it. Think of when you sweat -- liquid exits your pores, wind blows across your skin, the sweat evaporates, and your arm gets cooler. The problem with blindly adding fuel to cool down the combustion event is that it makes the air/fuel mixture richer... and after a while, it doesn't want to burn, and it stops making power (and other problems as well). The amount of heat absorbed by a liquid as it changes to a gas is described via its latent heat.


Enter methanol...
Methanol, an alcohol, is a fuel that your engine can burn. It takes more than twice as much methanol to make the same power as gasoline, which is directly related to it's stoich point being about half that of gasoline. It literally takes half as much oxygen to burn an equal mass of methanol as it does gasoline, and that directly represents it's energy potential. Ethanol is an alcohol also (om nom nom), and has a similarly low stoich point, and similarly lower power output, which is why e85 folks have to run huge fuel systems compared to gasoline folks. The good thing about methanol is that it has an octane rating of around 120, and cools about THREE TIMES as well as gasoline when vaporized in a rich mixture. I know that sounds wonderful, but just wait until we get to water. By adding a little bit of methanol, you can raise the octane of your mixture a decent amount, and any remaining fuel is partially methanol, and thus will remove more heat than if it was purely gasoline.


Enter water...
Water is a.... wait, we drink this stuff, it shoots out of our pores when we're hot... perhaps we could use this for cooling?! Indeed! Water removes TWICE as much heat as methanol, and OVER SIX TIMES the heat of gasoline. Want to know the really cool part? (Oh man, I sincerely apologize for that pun, it wasn't intentional, but now that I see it, I'm not removing it because it hurts sooo good.) What's really cool is that any water injected into the mixture does not burn. ALL of its heat removing goodness is left there to absorb heat, regardless of the air/fuel mixture you used.

The proper air/fuel ratio to run
First, understand that I'm about to use "air/fuel ratio" totally incorrectly here just because we're used to the gasoline air/fuel numbers. When you added the methanol, kmanager no longer reports the actual air/fuel ratio, but you can tune with the numbers just as if nothing has changed. You can run a much leaner air/fuel ratio now because the water removes 6 times as much heat as the fuel you were leaving behind, and the methanol will allow for a leaner mixture without detonation, and any remaining methanol will remove heat twice as well as the gasoline that remains as well. I generally tune for low to mid 12s on my car. I could go leaner. I don't. There's not much power leaner than low to mid 12s, so why risk it. Hell, just tuning n/a cars, 12.8 makes for practically peak power. Just to give you an idea how much cooling the water alone is providing, I'll calculate the air/fuel ratio you'd have to run with gasoline alone to compare to the heat removing properties of the water.

Latent heats in J/g
Water: 2257 J/g
Methanol: 1100 J/g
Gasoline: 350 J/g

Mass in Kg/m3
Water: 1000
Methanol: 737.22
Gasoline: 786.51

If you are running 1560cc of fuel to 390cc of spray at 50/50 mass, that means about 44% of your volume of 390cc is water. That leaves 172cc of water to remove heat. If you were running
a 11.7 air/fuel ratio gasoline only combustion event, it has 80% fuel burned, and 20% remaining (.8 lamda.) This leaves .2 * 1560 = 312cc of gasoline with the 650cc @ 60% duty example. Using the above charts you can see that water weighs 1 gram per cc (you should know this from school), and gasoline weighs .737 grams per cc. 172cc of water weighs 172 grams. 312cc of gasoline weighs 230 grams. This means the water removes 172 * 2257 = 388,204 joules, where as the gasoline removes 230 * 80,500 joules. The water removes 4.82 times as much heat as the gasoline.

This means that if you wanted to remove as much heat as running just the water alone, you'd have to have 4.82 times as much fuel left over. With the 650cc @ 60% duty @ 11.7 a/f example from above, that means that 1560 * .8 = 1248cc of fuel is consumed and 4.82 * 312cc = 1498cc would need to be left over. That would put your air/fuel ratio at 1248 / 2746 = .45 lambda or an air/fuel ratio of 6.62:1. Not only would that not run well, if even run at all, you would need 820cc injectors, or larger!

Conclusion

* Water cools best.
* Methanol increases octane.
* Extra octane from a higher methanol percentage comes at the expense of losing the heat removing properties of the water you replaced with methanol.
* Pick the mixture that works for your requirements.
* You can continue to tune with gasoline a/f as reported by kmanager.
* Pistons on ground = bad.

A Graph by speedengineer to demonstrate all this nonsense




****What kind of gains will I see from Methanol****

Lets get the FALSE facts out first. Methanol injection ALONE will net ZERO to MINIMAL gains in power. When you add methanol injection to your car, you NEED TO TUNE it to see gains. This means you will need to adjust fuel and ignition values to compensate for the different fuel you are injecting into your motor. Methanol injection alone will actually lower power in most cases. This is because when you inject more fuel into your motor, the Air/Fuel ratio will become very rich and suck power from the combustion.

Example:

No Methanol: I was tuned for an A/F ratio of 11.8:1

WITH Methanol and no tuning: A/F ratios went into the black hole of 11.5:1 and required removing almost 10% of fuel to reach my original ratio of 11.8:1 (10% is a specific number to my car, my concentration of methanol, and the size of my nozzle. Each persons fuel adjustments will be a little different)

So to answer the question at hand...the gains we (supercharged RSX's) have seen range from a 20-40whp and 10-20wtq gains throughout the entire pull WITH TUNING.

Results will vary depending on the application you are adding the methanol to, with more gains being seen at higher levels of boost.

Here are some of the dyno graphs from several users on the forums...

Some of the most comprehensive to date was done by Derek (D-Rob) at Innovative, Serg (RSXTwister), and myself (aka these are the only graphs I have...lol)

Derek's results (11psi Non aftercooled On vs. Off):



Serg's results (11psi aftercooled On vs. Off):



My results (11psi ALL pulls on meth): I was testing the power gain with different increases in ignition until it became unsafe.





What Kit to Get?

***EDIT***
Please talk to Rodney at Alcohol Injection Systems (AIS) for the best kit for your setup.

Visit his site at www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com






****INSTALLATION****

OK...here is what most people have been waiting for. My install guide will be using the coolingmist kit.

First thing first...I went with a trunk mounted installation because my tank would not fit in the engine bay, and even if it did I still wouldn't put put it there due to heat soak of the contents. In order to mount the tank in the trunk you will need a few more things ($30 worth) from your local Lowes or Home Depot.

Things you need not included in the kit:

-1 strip of galvanized steel
-Hack saw or something similar to cut up the steel into useful pieces
-25ft of 150psi rated hose
-1/8th inch tap
-Power Drill with 11/32th's bit
-Metal Screws to screw the tank into the car (not sure what size they were...its been a while and there are other options on how to mount the tank with zipties if you want)

Things to remember during the install...

#1 You want the pump BELOW the tank so that it always pulls fluid
#2 You want the nozzle ABOVE the tank so that gravity wont pull fluid out of the nozzle
#3 You want the checkvalve in between the pump and the nozzle...you want the checkvalve as close to the nozzle as possible or you may experience a lab in meth spray leading to an occasional knock.

Lets start with the tank and the location of all the other major parts.



This is the mounting set I fabricated out of one strip of galvanized steel from Lowes. I simply cut it into two pieces and screwed the tank onto the two strips. Then I screwed the metal strips to the metal behind the lining of the trunk. This allowed for the pump to be located right underneath the tank which is whats needed for this type of pump.



The pump simply sits underneath the tank. I currently do not have anything holding it down to the floor but it has rubber pegs on it that hold it to the carpet pretty good for now and I usually have my toolbox next to it which will also hold it in the area. As of a year and a half now, the pump has not moved so mounting it to the floor is not really NECESSARY...but if you want to...go ahead.



The hose I purchased was from Lowes as well. It was rated to 150psi and cost $1.70 for 25ft.

**DO NOT USE RUBBER HOSE!! THE METHANOL WILL EAT THROUGH IT***

I ran this hose and the connecting wires to the pump down the side of the trunk where it connected to the checkvalve (The brass part you see down the side of the trunk). After the checkvalve the hose and wires went behind the side panel and along the side of the door under the plastic strip that runs the length of the door. From there the hose moves up under the steering wheel and out of the grommet that has the blue wire coming out into the engine bay.

Hose and wires going under steering wheel


***IMPORTANT***
People have run into issues with the frame of the car cutting into your meth lines if you push your hose through here. You can either pad the sides of this grommet to prevent this or try to find another way into the engine bay.

Hose leaving cabin into engine bay


Hose and power supply for pump entering engine bay


Hose connected nozzle on the intake. I had to purchase a 1/8th inch tap for this but if you have one laying around do that. 6 inches from the throttle body is where you want to install the nozzle. First you drill the intake with an 11/32th's bit then tap it with the 1/8th inch tap.


Wiring...

This is where it gets a little complicated. Lets get the big picture first. The idea here is that we want a connection from the battery to the pump. This connection will be controlled with a relay that is controlled by K-pro. So when the ECU determines that the conditions are right, the ECU will send a signal to the Relay which will allow the connection between the battery and the pump to complete....and SPRAY!



In this image you need to swap out the nitrous tank for our pumps. If you follow the wire going from the battery to the relay (wire 30 on the relay) you will see a black "thing" in between the relay and the battery, I believe this is a fuse but this is not needed.

The 30 wire goes from the battery to the relay and wire 87 goes from the relay to the pump (nitrous tank). This is the power connection I am talking about that the relay is controlling. When K-pro sends the signal through wire 85, the relay will close and allow power to go from the battery (wire 30) to the pump (wire 87), thus turning the pump on and spraying meth.

USE THIS PICTURE FOR THE NEXT PART. It will tell you which wire to connect to K-pro.



E21 connects to the 85 wire on the relay. This is the signal wire that sends the signal to the relay to finish/cut the connection between the pump and the battery (aka, this sends the signal on whether to spray or not).

E22 connects to your switch. This switch is there to allow you to turn off the meth system if your tank is empty. You may ask...why do that? Say you were driving around and you knew your tank was low but you still wanted to drive hard or race someone...you can turn the meth system off and K-pro will only use your original calibration (the one you've been running off methanol) that is lower in ignition and richer in fuel. When you refill your tank you can flip the switch to "on" and when you got WOT K-pro will increase ignition and remove fuel for the methanol.

***ATTENTION*** When connecting the relay and switch to the ECU, DO NOT tap onto the wire. In other words, do not simply remove the plastic cover on the wire going to the ECU and solder your switch or relay to it. You need to physically CUT the wire coming from the ECU and directly solder your switch or relay to the ECU.

You can ground the pump anywhere in the trunk area to a bolt that connects to the frame

You can ground your switch here...



For the relay you need to use a 12v source for your power and ground. I used the cig lighter (A/C adapter) as a source for 12v power and ground.

I will warn you, it turns into a cluster of wires VERY fast so dont get frustrated...just follow the wires.











My arming switch

Took a while to get the bitch to fit but it worked out. All switches are different but I just used a drill and a knife and cut out a hole that would fit the bottom side of the switch. You will need a 12v source, a ground, and the signal wire that goes from the switch to the ECU Pin #E22


Continued on my Next Post...
__________________
AFTERCOOLED AND WAITING FOR 12'S
Supercharged, Aftercooled, and Alcohol Injected!
348whp/240wtq
13.0 @ 113mph (Traction is not my friend)

Last edited by stwatson; 02-23-2010 at 07:09 AM..
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:25 AM   #2
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:36 AM   #3
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INFORMATION CONTINUED

Here is another DIY install with the Snow Performance kit thanks to RSXTwister

[QUOTE=RSXtwister;19665763]First of all, I would like to refer everybody who decided to install this mod to stwatson’s thread “Water/Methanol Injection Supercharged Q/A” in supercharging forum:
here - this thread is extremely informative and is a must reading before you start buying and installing stuff.

It it highly recommended to go to Alcohol Injection Systems for your kit (we previously used Coolingmist and Snow Performance, however due to recent findings, AIS is the best choice).

www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com speak to Rodney

For trunk mounted setup you will need 25feet of 150psi rated tubing (same diameter which comes with the kit, buy it at Ace – they have a clear one so you can see the mixture flow) and 50feet of electrical wire same gauge as comes with the kit (Home Depot, etc). Just take tubing and wires which came with the kit with you to make sure you’re buying the right stuff. The lengths mentioned are on the safe side and will be enough for any routing you choose, and in most cases you will have some leftovers. All these will cost you around 20 bucks. You will need most common tools for the install.

Basically, there are 3 steps in this installation – mechanical, electrical, and tuning Kpro.

Mechanical:
1) Tank and pump installation. First you need to decide where you want to install this – in the trunk or under the hood. Both are ok, but I went with trunk setup. My reasoning was it will keep the mixture and pump at much lower temperatures, and will allow for larger tank with less refills. If you prefer under the hood setup, please consult stwatson’s thread for options including usage of washer bottle as mixture tank.
I decided to mount my reservoir here:


And the pump here:


I used one of the brackets which came with my kit to secure reservoir in place (remove the carpeting first). You can use whatever is in your kit or fabricate your own. I bent one end of it to be U-shaped, made a cut in the siding of the trunk:


And slide a U-shaped end through the cut:


Notice on the picture that I also made two small cuts next to each side of the bracket closer to the top, routed a zip tie behind the siding and over the bracket and tightened it. This proves to be reliable solution to hold your tank in place even during fast turns and stops. Plus if you ever decide to take the system off, these cuts are not even noticeable!

Now put the reservoir in place, mark where the hole on the other side of the bracket meets the floor plastic trim, and drill a hole in the trim. Take the nut, put some superglue on one side of it, slide it underneath the trim and press and hold for 30 seconds after you line it up with the hole. Then let it dry for couple of minutes (beer break). Place the bolt through the bracket, hole in floor trim, and through the nit. Tighten. Done.


Now it’s time to secure the pump. I just took a utility knife, cut those coned parts of rubber mounts on the pump off to allow for more flat surface, put some superglue on them and glued the pump to the rubber sprayed surface next to the spare tire. No drilling or anything required, and holds like charm.


Now connect reservoir and pump with a hose (cut it to minimize length) using sealant that came with your kit.


I then put a foam spare tire cover and carpeting back on, and cut the carpet in the way shown below. Used 2 Velcros to secure the carpet to the side of reservoir. Here’s the final look:



Time to route the tubing and wiring to the engine bay now. I cut 50ft of wire in half, connected everything to the pump, marked positive wire with electrical tape as both of your wires will be the same color, and ran it in a spiral pattern around the tubing, securing with tape every feet or so:


I won’t go into details how to route everything to underneath the steering column – this is simple and requires just pulling sides of trim pieces, sliding tubing and wires under the trim, and securing it back. I ran everything along the driver’s side floor trim. It’s easy.

Ok, now when you’re under the steering column, cut negative wire from the pump, leaving enough length to ground it. I used the following spot for all further grounding needs (it’s on the right lower side of the steering column):


Route the tubing and remaining positive wire into the engine bay – I routed it through a grommet in the picture below (white hose coming out):


Route the hose through the engine bay to your air intake, and the wire to your battery positive terminal (don’t connect anything yet). Now time to drill and tap your air intake. Instructions say the nozzle should be at least 6inch away from throttle body to allow for even spray pattern and distribution of mixture. Follow the manual on how to drill, tap and connect the nozzle. I don’t have a good picture, here’s how stwatson’s looks like when finished:


Don’t install the nozzle into the intake yet, it’s fun to see how it works. Pour a full tank of distilled water in the reservoir, strip the end of positive wire, hold the nozzle, and connect the wire to battery’s positive terminal. The pump will turn on and yay!


Have fun and spray around until the tank is empty It will take you a while if you didn't read first, for the rest of you - pour just a bit of water (not a full tank) just to test the system for leaks. now install the nozzle into the intake. Mechanical part is done.


Electrical:

First things first, you need to disconnect the battery before doing any electrical work.
You have a wiring diagram in your manual, and also additional ones for bells and whistles you might have purchased with your kit – clog detector, mixture level sensor, etc. I would suggest installing the basic setup first, and then adding all extras later when you make sure your setup works. Also, you will need to get a switch (which will be your arming switch) at any auto parts store. I got this one, which is the same color as the panel and perfect size:


I will not recommend using boost level detector from the kit, but instead let ECU to control the system. My reasoning was simple – why use low tech mechanical switch if you can use programmable microprocessor?
Here’s THE BEST wiring diagram for the system. It is in fact the same as in your manual, just imagine replacing nitrous solenoid with pump and ECU with boost detector, and it'll be the diagram from your manual (except for the arming switch):

You still have positive wire running from pump to battery (not connected yet). Now it's time to cut it underneath the steering column. Connect the end coming from the rump to relay connection #87 (in my case green wire. I'm not sure if all manufacturers follow the same color scheme, but all connectors are clearly marked - numbered - on the relay). Connect the end coming from the engine bay (positive battery terminal) to relay connection #30 (yellow wire in my case). Go back to the engine bay, connect positive wire to 30A fuse, and run a wire form the fuse to positive terminal. You can attach it to the terminal at this point:


Secure all wires and make sure the connections are good, and they are not exposed to moving parts or excessive heat.

Now it's time for the arming switch. It's time to decide where to mount the switch, here's where I put mine (and you also can see green LED which is on when the system is spraying). It's totally up to you where you want to put yours:


Tap a hole in plastic trim and install switch. Most switches are labeled which connector is which. You will see "ground", "load", and "supply" connectors. Attach a wire to the ground connector, and ground it to the location which I mentioned above (see picture).

Attach a wire to "supply" connector on the switch. This wire, along with the wire from relay connector #86 (red in my case) will go to a switched +12V power supply. The best location to tap into is bcack/green wire in the steering column. You need to remove 3 screws from the lower plastic cover on the steering column, and pop up and forward the top piece. Here's how this wire looks like (notice two wires tapping to it under electrical tape):


Don't cut this wire, just strip a part of it and connect other 2 wires to stripped section. DO NOT TAP THE SYSTEM INTO AUXILIARY POWER SUPPLY. It might not have enough "power" to run the pump and a couple of gadgets you have at the same time.

Connect a wire to "load" connector on the arming switch. Now you have only two wires left (not in case if you have 5 wires coming out of relay - leave the "other" red one for later)- this one, and the one from relay connector #85 (black in my case). These will run to Kpro to activate the system.

Route these two wires underneath the panel to where Kpro is sitting. You need to connect them to two wires coming out of E connector of the ECU. Take a look at the ECU - you will see two connectors on the right side, and one white connector on the left - this one is connector E. Unplug it from ECU. ATTENTION 05-06 OWNERS. DO NOT USE CONNECTOR GOING INTO YOUR WIRE HARNESS. You need to pull out the connector with is plugged into ECU, only then you will get the mapping right.

Use the wiring diagram posted above (the connectors mapping on the harness) to locate pins E21 and E22. Now cut the wires connected to those pins on the wiring harness (you cannot tap into them, you need to cut tem completely), leaving enouth length to work with them. Strip the ends, and connect E21 to the wire routed from the relay, and E22 to "load" wire from the arming switch. Tape up the other ends of ECU wires you cut.

You're done with wiring (hopefully), now it's testing time, so do not put the trim covers back yet.

Connect your laptop to Kpro, and turn on ignition (no need to start the engine). Load your calibration and enable "Nitrous Control 1" under "Parameters". Select E22 Brake switch as Arming Input, and E21 VSV-EVAP as Output Control. Do not worry about other parameters so far. Upload the calibration to ECU.
After it's done, click the datalogging button, and open Sensors window. Locate sensor "N2O Arm 1". While datalogging with ignition on, flip the arming switch back and forth - the sensor value should change "on"/"off". If it does, your arming control works. If not, revisit your work (voltmeter is your best friend).

If everything's fine, as a "bonus feature" you can wire the LED which comes on when the system is spraying (and LED is probably came with your kit). Note that LEDs have negative and positive connectors. If you're not sure which one is which, connect the LED to the battery terminals. If it's not on, switch the wires. Now you know where positive and negative are.

Tap a small hole where you want to mount LED, connect negative to the ground point discussed above, and positive to that fifth (red) wire from the relay.
This LED is very useful from my experience especially when you're street tuning, as you can easily notice at what point the system is activated.

Load your old map with nitrous control disabled, so you can drive safely while preparing your tune in KManager. Secure all wiring and relay with zip ties, and put all covers back on.

Btw, I've got sick of those clips holding the cover underneath glove compartment breaking on me (I personally broke mine while testing my friend's faulty Kpro which he bought from well-known San Antonio brick dealer). So here's what I did. I took 3 short 10mm bolts and nuts, put some superglue underneath the bolts' cap, and glued them to the inside of the panel through the clips' holes (so the threaded ends are sticking out). Now you don't need those plastic shit, just put the cover back and secure with nuts (hand tight). You woudn't ever notice the difference from outside unless you're lying drunk on the floor in front of the passenger seat. I don't have to buy that crappy plastic piece of shit ever again:




***UPDATE***

Two things I discovered after using this setup:

1) For the trunk mounted setup, you will need solenoid upgrade. Period.
Otherwise you will experience air bubbles inside the line leading to uneven spray = messed up air/fuel ratio.

2) This is something I posted in chat thread just recently:
is stwatson around? i have some bad news for him

I have a similar water/meth setup, the same tubing (got it at ACE, clear 150psi one), and it runs through the same grommet in the firewall. When I was boosting last couple of days, I was wondering about the fine funny smell inside the car. Datalogs showed knocking above 7200rpm. Guess what - I tested the system today and yes, I got a leak due to the tube rubbing against the side of the firewall. Fine hole spraying a mist inside the cabin.
I'll go to ACE/Home Depot tomorrow to figure out the way to reinforce that link, will report later. Some notes:

1) Somebody (raz?) expressed a concern in stwatson's water/meth thread if the tubing could be damaged at that point. It was not taken seriously back then - now it is confirmed.
2) Most likely my going rear motor mount contributed to this - due to excess engine movement and vibration.
3) The easiest way to test the whole system is: cut/disconnect the wire from relay connection #85 to ECU, turn on the ignition (no need to start the car), and measure current with voltmeter between that wire going to ECU and ground. Should be 12V. Then with the other side of the wire (coming from #85 relay), touch the grounding point. This will activate the system (with the switch in engaged position), and you will hear pump working, solenoid opening, and liquid flowing. Plus you can see the leaks.

***TUNING***

This is where the real fun begins. When you install your meth kit you will need to make some changes to your calibration so that you can gain the benefit of your methanol. Tuning is MUCH easier if you use the nitrous tables supplied in the parameters in K-pro which is why it is MUCH better to wire your meth kit through our ECU. If you choose to use the boost switches supplied with the kits then you will be unable to take advantage of this wonderful tool.

First off you need to get your car running good with NO METHANOL! You need to get a good flat A/F curve with safe ignition values that wont cause knock. This means that if your current calibration is a tad on the risky side, go ahead and retard everything to a VERY safe level...you have no need to risk this anymore now that you can flip a switch for methanol.

Once you have your car tuned safely off methanol we can begin tuning the methanol. You need to go under parameters and select the nitrous 1 tab. In this tab you will have access to two different tables, your window of spray and the adjustments you want the ECU to make while you are spraying.

The window or Conditions table looks like this:



The car will only spray methanol once the ECU recognizes that the motor has met all of these conditions. Depending on the amount of boost you are running, and the amount of methanol you are spraying, your numbers will be a little different. Please ask specific questions about methanol engagement in this thread.

The Adjustments table looks like this:



DO NOT use these values for your setup. These numbers will vary depending on your nozzle size, your off meth (regular) calibration, and your desired power.


The first row is fuel compensation. Here you will enter negative numbers which represent the number of FUEL UNITS the ECU will pull when you begin to spray. These are not fuel % numbers like when you normally adjust fuel values. I would also recommend changing the interval of RPM's on top to what I have. This allows for a much higher resolution and accuracy on where the ECU needs to make adjustments to your fuel. You need to do a preliminary datalog to see just how rich you are with NO fuel adjustments. From there you will need to go into your fuel adjustment table and remove fuel accordingly.

The next row is ignition. Several tests have been done to see what ignition values will deliver the most power without over stressing the bottom end of the motor and without knock. The more boost you run, the lower this number. The less boost you run the HIGHER this number.

MAX ignition based on Boost

7psi = 28/29 degrees
9psi = 26 degrees
11psi = 23/24 degrees
13psi = 23/24 degrees

This means that you want to look at your OFF METH calibration and see what ignition you are running OFF METH, then you ADD the number of degrees needed to reach your desired amount of ignition. More power has been seen at numbers higher but that is a personal choice if you wish to push the values that high. I personally began to see my torque wobble, no power was gained, and several knocks, so my ignition was dropped back down. If you do not feel comfortable pushing ignition this high you can always lower it down to whichever number you like or get on a dyno and watch your torque curves while increasing ignition.

Any questions please ask in this thread!
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:36 AM   #4
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Have you searched the turbo forum? I recall several guys over there doing this.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:38 AM   #5
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Have you searched the turbo forum? I recall several guys over there doing this.
I did and I also remember Raz doing his own thread about this but I believe it got deleted. I posted these questions on the turbo forum and no one responds. I figure I'll get more love here in the S/C forum
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:38 AM   #6
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I read in the other Turbo thread that Raz recommended that you do NOT wire the arming switch to the power steering pressure switch (E16). The power steering pressure switch is the default under the nitrous 1 tab in K-Pro, and it says its a GND=off (what does the =off mean). So where else could you wire the arming switch?

Also I went farther into the nitrous tab and went to the fuel and ignition section. When nitrous kicks on it actually ADDS fuel and RETARDS ignition. I thought water/meth does the exact OPPOSITE of this correct?

I would assume that 3000rpm for the engine speed is good since thats where VTEC kicks in but I dont know about engine load or vehicle speed. Suggestions on using this would be appreciated as well

I believe in the nitrous tab you can add or remove ignition.
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:40 AM   #7
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I believe in the nitrous tab you can add or remove ignition.
So I am correct in the fact that methanol is actually adding fuel and you will need to remove fuel when spraying?
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:48 AM   #8
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So I am correct in the fact that methanol is actually adding fuel and you will need to remove fuel when spraying?
not sure, you should ask NBP
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:57 AM   #9
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where is he...
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:59 AM   #10
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yes u need to remove gasoline fuel while spraying methanol
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I have a 6 sheets of paper in front of me, all of them my fuel maps. I'm noting where to add and take away fuel.
This is the most work I've done at work EVER
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:08 AM   #11
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Just bought my kit and will be having JustinC help me wire it up, not sure if he knows yet tho

Going to be controlling it via the nitrous tabs, removing fuel and adding ignition since you can enter negative values instead of positive.

Main thing I was concerned about was what if it clogs/stops flow then you are running lean as fuck with full ignition i've bought a clog/flow detector with my kit which I will set to deactivate the arming if flow stops as a failsafe.

I bought my kit through coolingmist.com for $285 shipped with the clog/flow detector 375ml nozzle is what i'll be running

Here's a link to NBP's injection spreadsheet

http://forums.clubrsx.com/attachment...1&d=1203382683

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Old 02-20-2008, 11:25 AM   #12
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You also might want to get a low level indicator. With an aftercooler, no need for that mess.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:36 AM   #13
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You also might want to get a low level indicator. With an aftercooler, no need for that mess.
I would love to run an aftercooler, this is a good alternative for us CTSC guys and a poor mans aftercooler
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:07 PM   #14
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Just bought my kit and will be having JustinC help me wire it up, not sure if he knows yet tho

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Old 02-20-2008, 12:53 PM   #15
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I was going to make this thread once I had the proper amount of injection at 15psi. I don't think anyone really gives a shit about my opinions anyway.

Nozzle Size specific to application? 350 ml/min for 11psi
Tank Mounting? Use the window washer fluid container by your cai filter.
Wiring (K-Pro and switches)? Don't know, always can use the pressure solenoid that comes with the kit
Ignition Advancement (how much is safe)? At 11psi I was able to increase ignition by 6 degrees with 0 knock. Maximum power is made somewhere in that range of 28-24 ignition.
Mixture % of water/meth? window washer fluid works well, 33% meth. Just make sure its blue as the purple window washer fluid contains other things besides water and methanol. Easiest to use because you can just pour it in and go. They say 50/50 is optimal, just mix 3 bottles of gold heet into a gallon of -20F window washer fluid.
Cheaper to build one yourself? Snow Performance kit cost 250$ and comes with everything you need. No pressure losses as an aftercooler would have. Much much cheaper also.
Tuning suggestions? Decrease fuel in the middle of the fuel curve. Your fuel curve will look like a U. Unless your using nitrous parameters.

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Old 02-20-2008, 01:11 PM   #16
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so you are saying that washer fluid can be shot in the intake and burnt for cooling?
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:50 PM   #17
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so you are saying that washer fluid can be shot in the intake and burnt for cooling?
Not only cooling but an effective octane booster
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:03 PM   #18
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I was going to make this thread once I had the proper amount of injection at 15psi. I don't think anyone really gives a shit about my opinions anyway.

Nozzle Size specific to application? 350 ml/min for 11psi
Tank Mounting? Use the window washer fluid container by your cai filter.
Wiring (K-Pro and switches)? Don't know, always can use the pressure solenoid that comes with the kit
Ignition Advancement (how much is safe)? At 11psi I was able to increase ignition by 6 degrees with 0 knock. Maximum power is made somewhere in that range of 28-24 ignition.
Mixture % of water/meth? window washer fluid works well, 33% meth. Just make sure its blue as the purple window washer fluid contains other things besides water and methanol. Easiest to use because you can just pour it in and go. They say 50/50 is optimal, just mix 3 bottles of gold heet into a gallon of -20F window washer fluid.
Cheaper to build one yourself? Snow Performance kit cost 250$ and comes with everything you need. No pressure losses as an aftercooler would have. Much much cheaper also.
Tuning suggestions? Decrease fuel in the middle of the fuel curve. Your fuel curve will look like a U. Unless your using nitrous parameters.
Thank you very much for this information I dont know who doesnt like you on here but I sure do

Would you recommend using K-Pro or some other form of regulation on the amount being injected into the system?

The nozzle you mentioned was for 11psi...do you know if I would need to go a step down for 9psi or would the 350ml/min be good?

I am thinking about buying the kit because it comes with all the shit I need.

Gold Heet? Sry for being a noob but what is this? I understand getting the blue window washer fluid ( i have some now) so thats good. I heard that you need the tank to be mounted higher than the pump...how is this possible if the washer fluid tank is damn near the bumper?

Again thanks for the info and I hope I can keep probin' ya for info!

If raz wants to hop in here...your more than welcome!
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:25 PM   #19
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Not only cooling but an effective octane booster
so what happens if i get a wet shot and shoot a 30 shot of winshield washer fluid??

or put it in the gas tank at a ratio of 1 gallon to every 3 gallons of gas.....would that help at all?
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:31 PM   #20
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so what happens if i get a wet shot and shoot a 30 shot of winshield washer fluid??

or put it in the gas tank at a ratio of 1 gallon to every 3 gallons of gas.....would that help at all?
that sounds like a bad idea
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:39 PM   #21
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so what size nozzle is good for 9psi...anyone???
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:41 PM   #22
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so what happens if i get a wet shot and shoot a 30 shot of winshield washer fluid??

or put it in the gas tank at a ratio of 1 gallon to every 3 gallons of gas.....would that help at all?
You don't want to put water in your gas tank. It's a non-polarized molecule while gas is a polarized molecule. They would repel each other and you would have only water in low spots, since it's heavier than gasoline.

The only way to do it is by introducing atomized particles inot the airstream, such as this injection kit. Does that make sense?
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:58 PM   #23
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The concept is this, as any fluid evaporates it absorbs heat. We sweat because as the water on our skin changes to a gas it absorbs heat from its surroundings, thus cooling us off. Spray water, methanol, or any other liquid into an engine and the fluid will evaporate and absorb heat. We use water and methanol because water has a very high latent heat of evaporation (water absorbs a lot of heat when evaporating). We use methanol because it is a high octane fuel that prevents the water from freezing in cold temperatures. Spraying water and methanol not only cools the air/engine, it also increases the total octane of the fuel, preventing knock.

At 9-11psi I highly recommend using the 350 ml/min nozzle. If you're buying the snow performance kit, then you get a choice of two nozzles. I would get the 350 and 625 if you plan to upgrade the boost to 13 or higher. I believe 625 would work for 13 psi, and my prediction is that 1000 is needed for 15 psi. The 150psi pump can be turned up to 180psi by rotating the set screw 2 turns clockwise. The pressure can also be turned down. You'll know if you're spraying too much because your engine will bog. I have never experienced this though. I have made a spreadsheet here where you can input your boost levels and injection nozzles and see how much heat it removes, theoretically.

Snow peformance recommends a 50/50 water to methanol ratio for maximum performance. I used 33% methanol with good success at 11psi. Blue window washer fluid can serve as the injection fluid. -20F window washer is about 33% methanol. Make sure you use the blue window washer fluid, as other window washers contain various other chemicals that will damage your injection system, 02 sensor, or engine. At this time I do not know what the best mixture is for us. In order to get a 50/50 ratio you can mix three 12 oz bottles of Gold HEET into window washer fluid as a gallon. (Pour 3 bottles of heet into an empty gallon container and then fill the rest with -20F window washer fluid) I found HEET at advanced auto parts. HEET is just methanol.

There is some concern that spraying could damage the rotors in the supercharger. I, nor anyone else have experienced this. I haven't noticed any loss in pressure so I believe the rotors are fine. Snow performance also recommends spraying into the supercharger. Don't spray into turbos or centrifugal superchargers as the blade speeds are too fast. My blower is cool to the touch after hard runs as a benefit of spraying before the blower

The pump should be mounted below the reservoir because these pumps do not pull fluid well, only push. I ziptied my pump below the tank by the horn.

Wiring can be done two ways. The easier method is to use the supplied pressure solenoid and hook up a pressure line from the solenoid to the manifold. You can adjust the pressure on the pressure solenoid by turning a set screw, so at say 7psi, injection starts. You'll have to adjust your fuel curves if you wire up the injection this way. Because methanol is a fuel, you'll actually decrease the fuel in the tables. My fuel curves look like a U.

The other, better way is to wire up the injection to kpro and use the nitrous tabs to control your fuel. Now you can set what rpm, pressure, gear, etc. injection starts. I did not do this so I'll stop here.


Injecting water/methanol lowers charge air and combustion heat and raises fuel octane preventing knock. The power it takes to drive the supercharger is also decreased as the compressor becomes more insentropic, allowing for more power to go to the wheels of the car. Unlike nitrous, where you have to add fuel and remove ignition, for water/meth you decrease fuel and add ignition. Water/meth is very safe. Even with no tuning your engine is running cooler and safer, only running richer. In order to see gains from meth/water injection you have to adjust/tune the fuel and increase timing.

And once you get all that under your belt, you can add a little something called nitromethane to your injection.

At 11psi I was able to increase ignition 6-4 degrees above the 10psi base map with the 350 nozzle. Before my engine would start to knock during 4th gear as the heat built up, but now I can go all the way to the top of 5th without any knocks. All that I've written is from my own experience. I don't get any money from people doing this. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. I'm just trying to share the information that I've found in hopes that it will help other sc members.


References:
Experience
Thermodynamics
http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs.php

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Old 02-20-2008, 03:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by NBP_RSX_S View Post
The concept is this, as any fluid evaporates it absorbs heat. We sweat because as the water on our skin changes to a gas it absorbs heat from its surroundings, thus cooling us off. Spray water, methanol, or any other liquid into an engine and the fluid will evaporate and absorb heat. We use water and methanol because water has a very high latent heat of evaporation (water absorbs a lot of heat when evaporating). We use methanol because it is a high octane fuel that prevents the water from freezing in cold temperatures. Spraying water and methanol not only cools the air/engine, it also increases the total octane of the fuel, preventing knock.

At 9-11psi I highly recommend using the 350 ml/min nozzle. If you're buying the snow performance kit, then you get a choice of two nozzles. I would get the 350 and 625 if you plan to upgrade the boost to 13 or higher. I believe 625 would work for 13 psi, and my prediction is that 1000 is needed for 15 psi. The 150psi pump can be turned up to 180psi by rotating the set screw 2 turns clockwise. The pressure can also be turned down. You'll know if you're spraying too much because your engine will bog. I have never experienced this though. I have a spreadsheet here where you can input your boost levels and injection nozzles and see how much heat it removes, theoretically.

There is some concern that spraying could damage the rotors in the supercharger. I, nor anyone else have experienced this. I haven't noticed any loss in pressure so I believe the rotors are fine. Snow performance also recommends spraying into the supercharger. Don't spray into turbos or centrifugal superchargers as the blade speeds are too fast. My blower is cool to the touch after hard runs as a benefit of spraying before the blower

The pump should be mounted below the reservoir because these pumps do not pull fluid well, only push. I ziptied my pump below the tank by the horn.

Wiring can be done two ways. The easier method is to use the supplied pressure solenoid and hook up a pressure line from the solenoid to the manifold. You can adjust the pressure on the pressure solenoid by turning a set screw, so at say 7psi, injection starts. You'll have to adjust your fuel curves if you wire up the injection this way. Because methanol is a fuel, you'll actually decrease the fuel in the tables. My fuel curves look like a U.

The other, better way is to wire up the injection to kpro and use the nitrous tabs to control your fuel. Now you can set what rpm, pressure, gear, etc. injection starts. I did not do this so I'll stop here.


Injecting water/methanol lowers charge air heat and combustion heat and raises fuel octane preventing knock. The power it takes to drive the supercharger is also decreased as the compressor becomes more insentropic, allowing for more power to go to the wheels of the car. Unlike nitrous, where you have to add fuel and remove ignition, for water/meth you decrease fuel and add ignition. Water/meth is very safe. Even with no tuning your engine is running cooler and safer, only running richer. In order to see gains from meth/water injection you have to adjust/tune the fuel and increase timing.

And once you get all that under your belt, you can add a little something called nitromethane to your injection.

At 11psi I was able to increase ignition 6-4 degrees above the 10psi base map with the 350 nozzle. Before my engine would start to knock during 4th gear as the heat built up, but now I can go all the way to the top of 5th without any knocks. All that I've written is from my own experience. I don't get any money from people doing this. I'm not trying to sell anyone anything. I'm just trying to share the information that I've found in hopes that it will help other sc members.


References:
Experience
Thermodynamics
http://www.snowperformance.net/faqs.php
Thanks again man...
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Old 02-20-2008, 04:11 PM   #25
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I believe Snow sells a 7 Qt. tank, not sure of the exact dimensions but I know that I have a huge hole where my Airbox used to be..as well as a few unused brackets to use as a mount. Just an idea.
ps - I spoke with someone at snow, way back,about how long the tank lasts and he uses 1 washer tank, approx 2 qts for 3 tanks of gas on a turbo gti if I recall correctly....fyi.
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