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Old 12-12-2009, 07:23 PM   #1
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Installing KPRO in your base auto, and a budget a2 cam swap + turbo

Can a Mod sticky this please?

Link to turbo build
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=728172

Base Auto Kpro Thread: Detailed writeup, Information, Followup modifications

First off, let me give you some results and prices. I am using an 06 Base Auto. I have Kpro in it working, I have an Injen CAI, Catback, and A2 cams in a vtec killer configuration. I have not dyno'd it yet, but power levels should be at least at a stock type-S, with a lot of room for more power. Oh, and it can also pass Chicago OBDII emissions testing (plug in scanner test)

Prices to get Kpro working
Kpro'd PRB 02-04 RSX type-S ecu ($800-$1200)
02-04 Type-S Primary O2 sensor ($140-$200)
Adapter Harness ($250-$350)
Coolant Temp Sensor and misc wires and plumbing hardware (~$35 dollars)

Additional modifications I have performed to further increase power
K20A2 cams with gears (used, around $100 dollars)
K20A3 exhaust rockers x4 ($20 each, brand new)

Optional Modification parts
02-04 Type-S VTC solenoid

This writeup thread is for informational purposes only. I have done all modifications on my car, and they work as such. Your mileage may vary, and I am not responsible for any damage you do to your vehicle.
This project was done on an 06 Base Auto, made to be sold in the USA.

Unless you are comfortable working with vehicle wiring, or otherwise are willing to learn and know how to read diagrams and the basics of voltage and wiring, you should not attempt to do this project. All the instructions here are for the 05-06 Base Auto. Using an ECU pinout diagram, you can see the differences between the ecu pinouts and adapt the guide to your 02-04.

Lets get started. The first few parts of this will be very simple. What to order, what to install, and getting the car running. After that, it will get more tricky and in depth. Bear with me.
1. Ordering parts
You will need to obtain/order/find an ECU that you can use to Kpro. The 02-04 Type-S ecu is recommended, but I am using an 03 honda CRV ecu, which is on the compatibility list. It works just fine. You need to place an order to have the ECU modified by hondata for use in an 02-04 Type-S. I recommend ClubRSX store. Not only is it the cheapest place to get it done, but I got my ECU back fast even though it was thanksgiving. You will also need to place an order to get an adapter harness made. You can check out boomslang.us and order, or contact Joel, who made some other members an adapter harness. The adapter harness is critical to this working correctly. No matter who you order from, the adapter harness will be virtually identical, and will work enough to get the car started. Getting all the sensors to work properly may take some extra effort, which I will outline later on. Also, grab an 02-04 type-S primary O2 sensor.
-Cliffs
Get Kpro Ecu, get adapter harness, get O2 sensor
2. Installing parts
When you get your hondata ECU in the mail, follow instructions on first time setup (installing drivers on laptop/computer), and upload a basemap for your car.(use the K20a3 basemap if you are stock, and make sure immobilizer is disabled) but do not install the Kpro unit into the car yet. Disconnect the car battery. Replace the base auto O2 Sensor with the 02-04 type-S sensor. Grab your adapter harness, and disconnect the factory ECU from the factory harness. The Adapter harness will have 8 connectors coming out of it. 3 of these should be bundled/ziptied, or otherwise marked to differenciate them between the other 5. Push these 3 connectors aside for future reference. Plug the other 5 connectors into the OEM ecu thats in the car. Plug the Factory connectors into the Adapter harness. The remaining 3 connectors will go into the Kpro'd ECU. Do not worry about mounting the ECU's or replacing the kick panel. I can almost guarantee you it will be coming off again more than once.
3. Starting your car
Go ahead and reconnect the battery, get your laptop, and plug it into the Kpro ECU. Turn the ignition key to ON, and make sure you can connect to the Kpro ecu with the laptop. Try to start the car. If it does not start, verify that all the harness connections are tight, and there are no damaged pins. Verify that you uploaded a basemap calibration, and that immobilizer is disabled. Once you get the car to start, connect to Kpro ecu and start datalogging. Hit the lightning bolt button and bring up the sensor panel. It should show MAP pressure, RPM, injector load, and several other sensors. Let the car completely warm up, ECT (coolant temp)should be around 170-175. The check engine light may come on(in fact, I bet it will.) There may be DTC codes in kpro. Even if there are no codes, shut the car off now.
4. Making it work RIGHT
Breath a sigh of relief. The kpro ECU is working, the harness is more or less working, and the car starts and runs. However you have a few DTC codes, a check engine light, or maybe no check engine light at all. The first thing you will do is check what the DTC codes are. Go to section 5 of this writeup and see if your code is listed. Also, go through everything section 5 tells you to do before driving your car daily. Before you do that though, go ahead and jack up the front of your car so the drive wheels are off the ground. Place jackstands under the car. Pull the ebrake up. The point of this is, you need to safely get the front wheels of the car rotating about 5-10 mph to check the speed sensor. Once the front of the car is off the ground, and it is securely jacked up, get in the car and start it up. Put the car in sport shift mode, and go into gear 1. You may not need to give any gas at all, but the point is you need to see if your speedometer works correctly. If the wheels are spinning and you can give it gas and the speedo doesn't work, then you will need to go to section 5 of this writeup and look up "Wiring the speed sensor". If your speedo works properly, you are ready to take your maiden voyage around the block, but you arn't ready to start driving it on the higway just yet.
5. . Working out the bugs/wiring
This is just a list of things that commonly go wrong, and how to correct them.

- You get a DTC of p0010, VTC oil pressure solenoid malfunction
This DTC means that your cam phasing will not work properly, and your vtec/cam lift (if you can call it that on a K20a3) may not function either. The car will run like a slug. The 05-06 uses an RBB VTC solenoid, different from the 02-04 type-S VTC Solenoid, which is a Pxx solenoid. Also, the 02-04 type-S ecu requires a VTC+ and VTC- Signal, which your VTC solenoid is not wired for.
How to fix it: You need to goto the connector on your VTC solenoid. It is on the side of the engine block, you can find the location in the helms/service manual (which you really should have if you are trying to do this) One of the wires is Blue/White (VTC+), and the other is black (GROUND). You need to run the black (GROUND) wire from the VTC solenoid to the (VTC-) pin on the type-S ecu, which is Connector B Pin 23. This means clipping the wire, and rerouting it. The black wire will no longer go to ground. It will go directly to the VTC- (ping 23, connector B) on the type-S kpro ecu. This is the easiest way to get it working properly. There will be some minor cam angle jitter of about 1* randomly, but this has not proved to be a problem, just an annoyance on datalogs.
You can replace the RBB solenoid with a type-S solenoid, and wire it the exact same way as stated above for a jitter free cam phase. This is optional.

- WIRING SPEED SENSOR. *IMPORTANT SEE NOTE BELOW* Your speedo doesn't work, but the speedo in Kpro works (or doesn't either)
Some harness makers will wire your speed sensor into the Kpro ECU. This allows the Kpro ecu to know how fast you are going, and uses it for things like launch control etc... but it will not allow your transmission to shift properly. If you drive the car like this, it will go into limp mode, and not shift past 2nd gear. It will jerk like crazy, and the drive like absolute CRAP.
How to fix it: Check the adapter harness. From the OEM harness, find where Connector A Pin 18 goes. If the harness routes it to the Kpro ECU, Connector A pin 18, then you have found the problem. You need to instead connect it to your Base Auto ECU, connector A pin 18. This gives your base auto ECU the speed information, which in turn makes your speedo work and makes the automatic transmission work properly.
*IMPORTANT*
In kpro, you have to check the box that says not to use a speed sensor, and provide a constant speed input. This will make the ECU always think you are going 59 MPH. If you are going 0 mph, it may not activate vtec
*NOTE NOTE NOTE NOTE*
If you have an 05-06 base auto ecu, you can use the VSS OUT pin and jump this to the Kpro VSS pin, and make sure countershaft driven speed sensor is UNCHECKED. The VSS will work in kpro this way

- The check engine light is not on, but when I plug in a scan tool, I get a ton of engine codes
The harness maker most likely ran the connector for the OBDII port to the base auto ECU. The base auto ECU isn't getting information from sensors like the o2 sensor, and is missing a lot of input. It is going nuts, and throwing a ton of codes. But the transmission will still work fine. How to fix it : Find on the OEM harness Connector E Pin 23. See where it is routed. If it is to the base auto ECU, you need to switch it to the Type-S ecu, same connector and pin.

- ALWAYS CHECK THIS, serious engine/transmission damage can occur! Coolant temp gauge only reads up a few bars on the dash, Kpro coolant temp (ECT) only reads up to about 130-140
Shut the car off right now. The coolant temp is reading low because the signal is split between the 2 ecu's The base auto ECU is sending the info to the dash, and the kpro ECU is sending the info to.... the kpro. Either way, unless the base auto ecu and the kpro ecu get the right information, damage can occur. The Radiator fan might not kick on, because according to the temp, your car is not overheating. The transmission will shift poorly, and the torque convertor clutch will not lockup, because it thinks the car is still warming up.
How to fix it :
You need to give the 2 ECU's their own sensor reading. Buy a coolant temp sensor, and head to ace for some plumbing fittings. You need to get a brass TEE, and 2 small pipes, about an inch long. The pipe size should be 1/4" NPT. You need to get some teflon tape as well. Apply some teflon tape to the threads on the temp sensor, and screw it into the end of the TEE. You can then insert the 2 pipe nipples on opposite sides of the TEE. You will install this contraption between the coolant hoses that run through the throttle body, effectively bypassing the throttle body coolant. Wire this sensor directly into the base auto ECU (Solder wires onto the connector of the sensor), and make sure the other sensor is only going to the Kpro ecu. You can use the existing wiring, because the harness maker most likely split the signal wire. You can just snip one of them and reuse it. Temps should read normal now.

I will add more to this thread as I remember, and I will also update it with pictures and such as time permits. Right now its about 2*F in chicago, so it may be a while.
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:24 PM   #2
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:24 PM   #3
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A2 cams in the A3 engine, using a "vtec killer" setup. Total cost of under 200 dollars.
You will be running the A2 cams in the A3 head, locked in the high cam. This is the most simple easy way to get near type-S power from the humble A3 engine.

Parts : K20A3 exhaust rockers x4, K20A2 camshafts with gears, some hondabond

This will be a straightforward cam swap with an added few steps. The idea is to swap in the K20A2 cams and replace your stock intake rockers with the A3 exhaust rockers.
You can find a cam swap writeup on the clubrsx.com main page in tech info.http://www.clubrsx.com/cr/SSIICSRI.html I suggest you follow this guide, with the added step of pulling off the rocker assembly and replacing the intake rockers with the new exhaust rockers.

You will be running A3 exhaust rockers on both the exhaust and intake cam. Before you bolt everything back in, take note of the clearances between the cam lobe and the exhaust rockers. There most likely will be interference between the 2. Lucky for you, the cam lobe is very very very hard, and the rocker arms are made of relatively soft metal. I did not notice the interference at first, and turned the engine over a few times by hand and the cam "grinded" out the area which touched. I then took compressed air and a shop vac and sucked all the metal particles off the rocker arms.
I also changed the oil and filter right after.

The suggested way would be to grind/mill off some of the high lobe. The high lobe is VERY wide, and the rocker roller is VERY thin. The goal is to grind down any part of the camshaft that doesn't contact the roller on the rocker. Not only will this reduce rotational mass (+70hp for you ricers), but it will keep the cam lobe from gouging your rocker arms. You can do it MY way of letting it do that, but don't blame me when parts of the rocker end up blowing up your motor.

After everything is back together, you will have a hell of a time starting your car. Manifold pressure is around -8 in/hg while warm idle, and less while cold. The car will need to be cranked more to start when in extreme cold. My idle is around 800rpm. You will need to adjust many things, as the effective working MAP pressures on the kpro table will be from 10-0 in/hg instead of 20-0.
Rev limit is set @ 7600

VtecKillera3.kal

This is my tune for the A2 cams on the A3 block. This may help you get the car initially started, but please adjust. I wipe my hands of any responsibility if you decide to load this cal up and go on a 24 hour endurance race without tuning it.

Tips on starting the car
Hold the gas pedal down about 20 percent. Crank untill it fires(usually 2-4 seconds depending on the ambient temp)
Let it warm up completely. Mess around with the ECT compensation, or you may hit lean cut before the car is fully warmed up.
Lean protection is on
This is for 270cc base injectors
This should be good enough to get you around the block to start tuning
Idle is in the 4.0-5.5 in/hg MAP range. Much less when cold. The MAP scaling has been changed. Do not copy/paste the values into another basemap, it will be off.



::edit


Turbo setup, 06-01-2010

This was an experiment to see how cheap you can get reliable boost.
If you have any qualms about using ebay parts, stop reading now

Total spent : less than 800
In a nutshell, I am running a T3/T4 hybrid turbo, front mount intercooler, 38mm WG and an SSQV bov
It doesn't smoke, it doesn't whine, and it works as it should.


More details

Chinese Ebay T3/T4 rebuilt with garrett bearings/oil seals/thrust plate
EMUSA 38mm "tial style" WG
SSQV "style" BOV
Godspeed intercooler kit (EMUSA intercooler)
Random reducers and t-clamps, all cheap
-10an oil return
-4an feed
.065" oil restrictor (important)

Boosting 5psi, so far no issues. Absolutely 0 smoke from the turbo.
It runs great, pulls hard. Full boost is at 4400rpm. Shifting without letting off the throttle keeps the turbo at full spool

Will get pictures and stuff later, too busy having fun
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:25 PM   #4
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Reserved for more writeup info/diagrams

Picture of A3 exhaust rockers on the A2 intake cam






In this picture I pointed out where the exhaust cam hits the rocker, and its hard to see but it took a few milimeters off the rocker. I would suggest dremeling it out first, or getting the cam lobe machined/ground down on the edges so it doesn't hit.
The way I did it was turning the engine over by hand and letting it grind off that way. I don't suggest that lol
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:00 PM   #5
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All this just to run Kpro? I'll pass... You did that just to be around the speed of a type s? No offense that's a waste of money and time, considering the type s is slow.
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian_guy10 View Post
All this just to run Kpro? I'll pass... You did that just to be around the speed of a type s? No offense that's a waste of money and time, considering the type s is slow.
I did it because it can be done, and it makes a good daily driver more fun. It also opens up the possibility of boost, which CAN make a ton of power.
If you don't have a question about Kpro on a base auto, or have any other constructive criticism to add, then maybe you should just avoid this thread

::edit

Considering you have a base auto, and have looked into making more power with it, Kpro would be the first step
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:16 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DJCarbine View Post
I did it because it can be done, and it makes a good daily driver more fun. It also opens up the possibility of boost, which CAN make a ton of power.
If you don't have a question about Kpro on a base auto, or have any other constructive criticism to add, then maybe you should just avoid this thread

::edit

Considering you have a base auto, and have looked into making more power with it, Kpro would be the first step
No don't get me wrong I do want more power but that much money and time just to get such littler power... Im still researching so... with Kpro and a K&N CAI how much more power would you be putting out? Cause I know mods on the base have very little affect, more for sound lol but with Kpro I heard it makes much more affective.
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persian_guy10 View Post
No don't get me wrong I do want more power but that much money and time just to get such littler power... Im still researching so... with Kpro and a K&N CAI how much more power would you be putting out? Cause I know mods on the base have very little affect, more for sound lol but with Kpro I heard it makes much more affective.
You would be close to the reflash availble for the 02-04 base auto, which you can find dyno charts.

I didn't add on the type-S cam swap I did in the writeup yet, but it cost around 200 dollars and is the bread and butter of cheap power modifications to the K20A3 engine IMO.
Kpro is a cost that everyone in an RSX needs to pay if they want to start making big power past stock, be it a base or type-S.


As far as time, after I studied the ECU pinouts, it took me a few hours to get all the wiring correct. The cam swap took 4 hours.
As far as money... you gotta pay to play, especially in "uncharted" territory

With that, I want to keep this thread for questions and success stories of other people running Kpro in their base auto, not discussing the cost-effectiveness of Kpro in a base auto
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:21 PM   #9
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i don't have an auto, but i will subscribe to this. this is a very over the top diy
props man - good job and thanks for sharing this info to the rest of the auto community
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:20 AM   #10
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Just filled up and calculated my gas mileage.
Normally I get around 24MPG, a lot of city driving with some highway
I got 20mpg with the cam swap, and thats with a kpro tune that runs rich as shit and me driving like an asshole

I think you can expect to pay 2-3 dollars more at the the pump on a fillup with the swap, which isn't bad at all
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:39 AM   #11
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Very nice write up!
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:39 AM   #12
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Amazing write up man. I think this is what people needed if they were worried about getting Kpro or not. This answers many questions I had.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:45 AM   #13
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Wow awsome write-up DJ. Thanks for all the information.
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Old 12-16-2009, 10:48 AM   #14
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Now everyone go do it lol
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:01 AM   #15
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wow dude wow congrads
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:55 AM   #16
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Now everyone go do it lol
PayPal me $2k and I'll get it this week. Lol

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Old 12-16-2009, 01:22 PM   #17
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well i have a 5 speed, but looking to do something similiar. Should be easier though....

great write up! subscribed
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:26 PM   #18
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well i have a 5 speed, but looking to do something similiar. Should be easier though....

great write up! subscribed
you dont need a harness. kpro is as simple as it gets for a 5 speed lol

gj on the write up. i still havent seen the rsx in person after all this though
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:18 PM   #19
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you dont need a harness. kpro is as simple as it gets for a 5 speed lol

gj on the write up. i still havent seen the rsx in person after all this though
i know that haha.
i was talking about the a2 cams in the vtec killer setup
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:19 PM   #20
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i know that haha.
i was talking about the a2 cams in the vtec killer setup
Do it
If you follow the cam swap guide and do everything I said to make sure there is no interference (or solve it) then its really straightforward

I forgot to mention that I used assembly/break in lube on all the cam parts when they went in
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:04 PM   #21
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So in the long run its better to K-Pro than reflash right?
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:13 PM   #22
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So in the long run its better to K-Pro than reflash right?
Reflash on the base auto (only 02-04) gives you a set tune. The reflash isn't even an option for 05-06, and Kpro allows infinite tuning. Also, I don't think hondata would reflash for vtec killer cams
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:47 PM   #23
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great write up, im actually planing to get kpro for my base auto, and im lookin for a not so expensive yet good hp gains soo this sounds like a great mod, butt would this effect my motor in the long run? i assume running on VTEC all the time cant be great for our motor... and how bad is the idle can you upload any visds or audio clips?
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:51 PM   #24
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great write up, im actually planing to get kpro for my base auto, and im lookin for a not so expensive yet good hp gains soo this sounds like a great mod, butt would this effect my motor in the long run? i assume running on VTEC all the time cant be great for our motor... and how bad is the idle can you upload any visds or audio clips?
I have to get a better camera than my iphone recorder, but I can upload some crappy videos soon.

The idle isn't bad, it idles just fine. It just doesn't like to be run cold, its near 0*F in chicago the past few days, and it likes to be warmed up before driven. When its warm its perfectly fine.

As far as bad for the motor... as long as its tuned properly and you don't try to rev it to 9K rpm every day, it should be fine
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:22 PM   #25
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